Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Viti · 02-20-2003, 07:59 PM

A poster over at Christian Forums has offered to take suggestions for evidence of faith healing http://www.christianforums.com/threads/36218-3.html. He works for Reverend Angley and they are sending video equipment to Africa in a few weeks for their crusade. He said he will make suggestions to the preacher going over there and the cameraman (video evidence only...its Africa I don't think we could x-rays or anything)

So, I told him I would give him some specific suggestions and wanted your help. So far I plan to mention

1. A regenerated limb...actually regenerating on camera
2. A visible tumor (I have seen neck tumors the size of grapefruits!) or large open sore, or svere scars healing on camera

Any others?

MzNeko · 02-20-2003, 09:32 PM

Jerry Falwell saying something intelligent on camera.

It wouldn't be faith-healing, but it would be a bona fide miracle!

Mad Kally · 02-20-2003, 09:48 PM

A decapitated head rolling back to it's body, reattaching itself correctly, then the guy jumping up and shouting "GODIDIT!"

Of course there would have to be rigorous controls. Maybe James Randi should be there. Doctors, the media and etc.

If they think that sounds crazy, why? It would be a muracle, right?

Claudia · 02-21-2003, 04:18 AM

There is radiography equipment in Africa! it is just more complicated to bring people there!

Oxymoron · 02-21-2003, 05:40 AM

o Double-blind tests would be great, though I guess the nature of faith healing makes this difficult.

o Some kind of control group to show what happens in the absence of the "healing" is a must.

o Independent medical evaluation of the victims.

Viti · 02-21-2003, 08:18 AM

I agree with all you guys, but all he has offered is to try to get something on videotape (he works for Reverend Angley Ministries). He and I have gone round and round in regards to what constitutes evidence, so this is more of a lesson to him than anything else.

Here's some stuff about this fraud Angley
http://www.ernestangley.org/About/about.htm

From here: http://dailylight.net/shame/shame.html

Quote:

Picture Liberace as an evangelist. It's a frightening mental image ... and a good first approximation as to what Ernest Angley looks like. The barrel-chested, pastel-suited Angley prances around the stage, speaking with a noticeable lisp, while repeating simple phrases with the intensity of a stage hypnotist. In contrast to Bob Larson, who prefers drawn-out Technicolor exorcisms, Angley can cast out two score of demons with a touch of his hand. Just put your hand on the computer screen, and you will be HHHEEEAAALLLLLEEDD! ... or at least, thoroughly entertained.

queue · 02-21-2003, 09:04 AM

Possibly a broken bone with the bone sticking out of the flesh (compound fracture?)?

simian · 02-21-2003, 09:14 AM

How about having the crew show up at an emergency room in a major metropolitan area. Let the patients self-select, but do comparisons between similar cases (blind computer matching of similar cases coming into the ER). As "faith healing" is to be instant (or nearly), you will not even have to refer to the final outcome. A patient with multiple bullets in the spine, huge amounts of blood loss being able to walk out of the hospital after having his wounds heal (on camera no less) would be suitable evidence.

Simian

Mad Kally · 02-21-2003, 12:26 PM

Tell him good luck but it isn't going to happen. In this article a con told a woman she had grown a new lung on stage and she believed it to her dying day. (about 2 weeks later) The ONLY follow up for any of these con people are the media. Most of the lunatics belong in prison or a psychiatric hospital.

Faith healer.

Some thoughts about faith healing!

A book on faith healing written by James Randi and Carl Sagan

The thought of aiming a camera at nothing seems ridiculous to me..

integral domain · 02-21-2003, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MzNeko
Jerry Falwell saying something intelligent on camera.

It wouldn't be faith-healing, but it would be a bona fide miracle!

LOL!! Oh come... not even god could do that!

02-20-2003, 07:59 PM	#1
Viti Contributor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Down South Posts: 12,879	Faith healing evidence challenge A poster over at Christian Forums has offered to take suggestions for evidence of faith healing http://www.christianforums.com/threads/36218-3.html. He works for Reverend Angley and they are sending video equipment to Africa in a few weeks for their crusade. He said he will make suggestions to the preacher going over there and the cameraman (video evidence only...its Africa I don't think we could x-rays or anything) So, I told him I would give him some specific suggestions and wanted your help. So far I plan to mention 1. A regenerated limb...actually regenerating on camera 2. A visible tumor (I have seen neck tumors the size of grapefruits!) or large open sore, or svere scars healing on camera Any others?

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02-20-2003, 09:32 PM	#2
MzNeko Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Long Beach, California Posts: 1,127	Jerry Falwell saying something intelligent on camera. It wouldn't be faith-healing, but it would be a bona fide miracle!

02-20-2003, 09:48 PM	#3
Mad Kally Banned Join Date: May 2001 Location: LALA Land in California Posts: 3,764	A decapitated head rolling back to it's body, reattaching itself correctly, then the guy jumping up and shouting "GODIDIT!" Of course there would have to be rigorous controls. Maybe James Randi should be there. Doctors, the media and etc. If they think that sounds crazy, why? It would be a muracle, right?

02-21-2003, 04:18 AM	#4
Claudia Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: France Posts: 715	There is radiography equipment in Africa! it is just more complicated to bring people there!

02-21-2003, 05:40 AM	#5
Oxymoron Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: http://10.0.0.2/ Posts: 6,623	o Double-blind tests would be great, though I guess the nature of faith healing makes this difficult. o Some kind of control group to show what happens in the absence of the "healing" is a must. o Independent medical evaluation of the victims.

02-21-2003, 09:04 AM	#7
queue Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 368	Possibly a broken bone with the bone sticking out of the flesh (compound fracture?)?

02-21-2003, 09:14 AM	#8
simian Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: St. Louis, MO area Posts: 1,924	How about having the crew show up at an emergency room in a major metropolitan area. Let the patients self-select, but do comparisons between similar cases (blind computer matching of similar cases coming into the ER). As "faith healing" is to be instant (or nearly), you will not even have to refer to the final outcome. A patient with multiple bullets in the spine, huge amounts of blood loss being able to walk out of the hospital after having his wounds heal (on camera no less) would be suitable evidence. Simian

02-21-2003, 12:26 PM	#9
Mad Kally Banned Join Date: May 2001 Location: LALA Land in California Posts: 3,764	Tell him good luck but it isn't going to happen. In this article a con told a woman she had grown a new lung on stage and she believed it to her dying day. (about 2 weeks later) The ONLY follow up for any of these con people are the media. Most of the lunatics belong in prison or a psychiatric hospital. Faith healer. Some thoughts about faith healing! A book on faith healing written by James Randi and Carl Sagan The thought of aiming a camera at nothing seems ridiculous to me..

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