ansarthemystic

I think you fail to realize that "what results from turning away from "god"(life)...i.e. death is the result of "god"s" doing. If god is omni-everything good, then it is impossible for god to not have created the "condition" that results from turning away from life(death).Human beings never create, we only "make", and procreate. Humans are unable to, willingly or unwillingly, create a mental or physical condition as the result of their actions.I agree with you that "hell" is the result of a being reaction to the conditions of the "next" life.But hell and death are not the same thing, and Allah created them both. This may cause readers some discomfort but once people know what hell IS and IS NOT then they will see the point.

Finally, it would be extremely arrogant of me to me presume to know Allah's(SWT)plan. I don't even know the devil's plan or the plans of any jinn, like religions such as christianity presume to tell us. However based on available evidence(man's "spiritual" experiences,mankind's "psychic unity, and the numerous writings(secular)and scriptures("sacred")of various world cultures), I will say that death seems to be a "rite of passage" into another type of existence(or being). I think christians, and I don't mean to be insulting, think that the afterlife is a state of perpetual groveling(worship) to a being that obviously does not "need" or "want" this.If the universe is as vast and infinite as science seems to elucidate then the purpose of existence, although largely unknown and speculated upon, can NOT be that!

peace and blessings

ManM

ansarthemystic,
Light does not create darkness. How then can you say that God creates death? God is uncreated, and as such so is His negation. Nothing is outside of God, and so when we decided to separate ourselves from God we found ourselves heading toward nothingness: death. I find nothing wrong with that reasoning. Furthermore, the goal is not a state of perpetual groveling to God, but to attain the likeness of God.

Now I find it hard to believe that you can say nothing about why Allah created death and hell. My first impression is that your god must be cruel and sadistic. This is especially so if hell is eternal. In that case, all I can say is that I hold myself to a much higher standard than your god holds himself. I do not desire anyone to suffer eternal torment. If Allah created hell, he must either desire people to suffer eternal torment or be forced to torture people by a necessity of some sort.

How can I be convinced otherwise if your religion is silent on the matter?

ansarthemystic

Hello again!

I hope you realize that saying that the negation of God is uncreated, then that means that the embodiment of Evil has always existed!Simply being the negation of light means that this being is equal, but diametrically opposed to god. This is dualism. There are at least three types of dualism as they apply to religion. The first type I have mentioned. The second type is the idea that Man is made up of two irreducible parts, matter and spirit. The third type is the idea that human beings are born with two natures, the instinctual and the "higher" man;essentially the good and evil in man has always been there.

I doubt that Christianity plagarized or borrowed this idea from zoroasreianism, but the influence of these ideas on christianity is unmistakable.

You say that nothing is outside of God yet he did not create death and humans are able to separate themselves from Him, you say. Your statements are contradictory.

Your other ideas about God you say come from Orthodox christianity.May I ask what type of christianity? Eastern orthodox, such as Russian or Greek orthodox? Or do you mean Egyptian Coptic or Ethiopian Coptic Church?

The other things you say are decidely pantheistic.Mankind attempting to attain the likeness of god is the Hindu pantheistic idea. There are at least 4 more that I know about. The 1)Buddhist one where mankind attempts to achieve the total annihilation of Self to be one with God.
2)the idea that god is the forces and laws of the universe.3)the Islamic one where God is existence, yet is separate from creation.4) The Sufist idea that Mankind can essentially become God or already IS God since everywhere you look God is there(omnipresent).

Islam is NOT silent on the matter of hell. In Islam no human being will spend eternity in hell. Hell(Jahannam) is a state of mind and is for spiritual purification!And I did state the reason why Allah(SWT) could have possibly created death, but it was speculation, since I can not say for sure that what Allah(SWT)'s will is. Allah(SWT)'s infinite will can not be contained in any finite book.

peace and blessings

[ July 31, 2002: Message edited by: ansarthemystic ]</p>

ansarthemystic

Actually I am quite aware that people other than atheists use the scientific method to separate fact from fiction.

Secondly my idea for the existence of god is in fact "verifiable",scientifically, I just stated that I will be discussing that later. I suspect that people who deny the existence of god do NOT really want "scientific evidence". I think ALL people who deny god want god to appear in person in front of the whole world so that there will be no denying it, if indeed god exists.

And yes Bibliophile is very capable, but he is a also misinformed on many issues!

peace and blessings!

[ July 31, 2002: Message edited by: ansarthemystic ]</p>