Freethought & Rationalism Archive

redstar · 10-29-2002, 04:24 PM

a super black hole has been discovered
at the core of the milky way galaxy

it is theorized that this
mother of all black holes
is the equivalent of a million
of the 'ordinary' black holes
that science has so far discovered

in this black hole
perhaps a gram of matter
would be equivalent
in mass as a million of our sun

it is also theorized that this super black hole
controls the entire milky way galaxy
all of the 800 billion stars
in its grip and orbit
the mother of all sub-orbits

each of the 800 estimated galaxies
would then have its own mother black hole
at its core

some thoughts:

from this we realize
how tiny we are in the universe
and at the same time
we realize how powerful we are
that we know that we are tiny

we get insights
from the macrocosm and microcosm
all at once

furthermore
there must be a Being
that is orchestrating all this
it could perhaps not just come about

xeren · 10-29-2002, 05:24 PM

There are two things i think you may me by "come about"

Guess 1. "There is no way the universe could have been created without some sort of god."

Why could it not just "come about"? Modern science has given us no reason not to think so.

You don't think atheists have pondered the "what is the meaning of the universe?" question before? Lack of an answer does not necessarily mean Goddidit.

Guess 2. "The chances that this universe could have formed in this way, with super massive black holes being orbited by galaxies, and stars being orbited by planets, with constants suitable for life, etc., etc. are ridiculously improbable"

Please, please please read up on retrospective and non-retrospective improbability. If you undertand the difference between the two, you will not make the mistake of thinking that the improbability of our universe means a god had any say in its design.

-xeren

[ October 29, 2002: Message edited by: xeren ]

Amen-Moses · 10-30-2002, 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by redstar:
in this black hole
perhaps a gram of matter
would be equivalent
in mass as a million of our sun

I'm sorry but a gram of matter is a gram of matter wherever it may be. You could be referring to the increase in mass due to acceleration to speeds close to that of light but then it would no longer be a gram of matter!

Amen-Moses

Godless Dave · 10-30-2002, 05:47 AM

Also, there are a hell of a lot more than 800 estimated galaxies.

Oxymoron · 10-30-2002, 06:25 AM

redstar: very prosaic, but a non sequitur.

I fail to see how you can move from supermassive collapsars to a designed universe. Can you elucidate?

xeren · 10-30-2002, 04:01 PM

had a feeling he was a troll

Sheep in the big city · 10-30-2002, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Godless Dave:
Also, there are a hell of a lot more than 800 estimated galaxies.

I think its about 100 000 000 000 with 100 000 000 000 stars each (a little uprounded but easy to remember). Quite a bit of creation God made there for us (or according to the bible for the tribes of Israel - helped them a lot)

Sheep in the big city · 10-30-2002, 04:12 PM

It is very well explained how black holes come to exist.
They were predicted (by Science not the Bible) long before they were even observed.
So to cite a black hole in defense of religion is really not a particularly clever appraoch.

PS: redstar, according to your profile you are a radical catholic - that sounds interesting, could you elaborate on that some time?

[ October 30, 2002: Message edited by: Sheep in the big city ]

thebeave · 10-30-2002, 04:44 PM

About one sentence of the Buybull is devoted to discussing God's amazing creation of trillions and trillions of stars, yet in the BuyBull he seems far more interested in a ring of skin at the tip of the wee-wee of a primate living near one ordinary star in a rather obscure corner of the universe. Did he have too much time on his hands after the six days of Creation, or what?

redstar · 11-03-2002, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amen-Moses:


I'm sorry but a gram of matter is a gram of matter wherever it may be. You could be referring to the increase in mass due to acceleration to speeds close to that of light but then it would no longer be a gram of matter!

Amen-Moses

10-29-2002, 04:24 PM	#1
redstar Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: New Jersey USA Posts: 6	galactic blackhole a super black hole has been discovered at the core of the milky way galaxy it is theorized that this mother of all black holes is the equivalent of a million of the 'ordinary' black holes that science has so far discovered in this black hole perhaps a gram of matter would be equivalent in mass as a million of our sun it is also theorized that this super black hole controls the entire milky way galaxy all of the 800 billion stars in its grip and orbit the mother of all sub-orbits each of the 800 estimated galaxies would then have its own mother black hole at its core some thoughts: from this we realize how tiny we are in the universe and at the same time we realize how powerful we are that we know that we are tiny we get insights from the macrocosm and microcosm all at once furthermore there must be a Being that is orchestrating all this it could perhaps not just come about

10-29-2002, 05:24 PM	#2
xeren Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Place Posts: 285	There are two things i think you may me by "come about" Guess 1. "There is no way the universe could have been created without some sort of god." Why could it not just "come about"? Modern science has given us no reason not to think so. You don't think atheists have pondered the "what is the meaning of the universe?" question before? Lack of an answer does not necessarily mean Goddidit. Guess 2. "The chances that this universe could have formed in this way, with super massive black holes being orbited by galaxies, and stars being orbited by planets, with constants suitable for life, etc., etc. are ridiculously improbable" Please, please please read up on retrospective and non-retrospective improbability. If you undertand the difference between the two, you will not make the mistake of thinking that the improbability of our universe means a god had any say in its design. -xeren [ October 29, 2002: Message edited by: xeren ]</p>

10-30-2002, 04:12 PM	#8
Sheep in the big city Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: CA Posts: 217	It is very well explained how black holes come to exist. They were predicted (by Science not the Bible) long before they were even observed. So to cite a black hole in defense of religion is really not a particularly clever appraoch. PS: redstar, according to your profile you are a radical catholic - that sounds interesting, could you elaborate on that some time? [ October 30, 2002: Message edited by: Sheep in the big city ]</p>

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10-30-2002, 05:47 AM	#4
Godless Dave Contributor Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: With 10,000 lakes who needs a coast? Posts: 10,762	Also, there are a hell of a lot more than 800 estimated galaxies.

10-30-2002, 06:25 AM	#5
Oxymoron Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: http://10.0.0.2/ Posts: 6,623	redstar: very prosaic, but a non sequitur. I fail to see how you can move from supermassive collapsars to a designed universe. Can you elucidate?

10-30-2002, 04:01 PM	#6
xeren Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Place Posts: 285	had a feeling he was a troll

10-30-2002, 04:44 PM	#9
thebeave Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Silicon Valley, CA Posts: 4,183	About one sentence of the Buybull is devoted to discussing God's amazing creation of trillions and trillions of stars, yet in the BuyBull he seems far more interested in a ring of skin at the tip of the wee-wee of a primate living near one ordinary star in a rather obscure corner of the universe. Did he have too much time on his hands after the six days of Creation, or what?

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