beoba

I think tdekeyser's listed location is a non-sequitor.

wildernesse

I figured angry--but why be angry over Noah and the ark? I just don't understand why this particular aspect is infuriating when your point could be quite amusing.

You have reasons to be angry--but don't let unloving people control you or your wife to-be. The less angry you get over what other people say about your decisions and life, the better.

Also, I sometimes think that most of the people hurt by Christianity are not hurt most by the religion, but by poor parenting and dysfunctional families. I don't think that the dysfunction is primarily from the religion, but that religion does play a role.

--tibac

tdekeyser

Hmmmm....well, I see Xianity as serious abuse. To teach a child that he/she is a piece of crap and 'broken' (sinner) unless they accept a invisible being is horrible. This strips away any self-esteem and self-respect a child might otherwise gain.

Then the abuse gets worse when they are told to 'fear' this invisible maniac because he will torture you forever. The storis of mass murder the being has committed and the prejudice that is taught is very serious as well.

I guess I am mad at anyone who abuses children, whether they know they are doing it or not.

I see Xianity as a VERY, VERY abusive religion to children and I see the effects of it everyday living in Dallas.

Rape of a child mind and logic is horrifing to me.

wildernesse

We're coming from totally different viewpoints, of course.

I certainly don't think that I've been abused by my family or church. I don't see how your view of Christianity includes love or grace, or how you can explain Christians who grow up confident and compassionate.

Of course, I'm not a True Christian, so my ideas mean less than nothing and I'm undeniably wrong on all counts.

One point when you talk about "rape of a child mind"--wouldn't that mean teaching a child *anything* that it didn't want to learn/discover on its own? More than Christianity would have to answer for that, then.

--tibac

The Other Michael

As long as you keep that in mind, you'll have no trouble getting along with even your co-religionists.

cheers,
Michael

Arvel Joffi

This is one of my favorite parts of the Christian myth. Every parent realizes that part of growing up is rebellion. No parent wants it to be something terrible like a life of crime or teenage preganancy, but we all know that the first time a child says "no" to us actually a good thing. A child is feeling out their independence. It takes them years (and some never learn it) but it's all about finding out when to say no. When to strike out on your own and be your own person.

Now, God (the father) tells Adam and Eve (his children) that there is only one thing that they cannot do. Any child, given only one rule, will eventually break it.

Now, to top it off, the fruit that they are not supposed to partake of gives them the knowledge of good and evil, or right vs. wrong. If they have to eat the fruit to understand "wrong," then it stands to reason that they were blameless in the incident. They didn't know they were doing anything wrong! And for this, they, and all of humanity afterwards, were punished.

You'd think they'd eat the fruit, and then realize they did something wrong. Then, like simple, sweet children, they would feel terrible. But! At that poitn you would expect God, like a good parent should, to say, "No, no. You didn't realize you were doing anything wrong. I still love you. Just don't do it again."

What an unforgiving, duplicitous bastard! I love it!

Rusting Car Bumper

Actually it is freethought city because of these:

<a href="http://church.freethought.org" target="_blank">North Texas Church of Freethought</a>
<a href="http://www.philosophersforum.org" target="_blank">Dallas Philosopher's Forum</a>

DC

[ November 20, 2002: Message edited by: DigitalChicken ]</p>

wildernesse

It's actually terribly depressing to be constantly reminded/told that I'm a liar/deceived.

--tibac

I ate Pascal's Wafer

Well, I was referring solely to the Christian concept of "god". Of course it's not fair to judge other deities based on the actions of one. It just so happens that I tend to hear about the Christian concept of "god" moreso than any other, so this is more often than not the concept of god I think about, especially when the OP involved screwups of the Christian deity.

Just to let you know, though, I don't base my views on all deities by the actions of the Christian one. I will only judge based on the actions and attributes assigned to that particular deity. For example, just because Jehovah may have killed off the first born Egyptian kids doesn't mean Zeus or Vishnu did.

-Nick

I ate Pascal's Wafer

tdekeyser, I'm sorry to hear about your situation. I know it must be difficult to have the love-of-your-life's parents hate you. I just hope it doesn't strain your relationship with her. So long as she is on your side things will be great, but she may end up having to make a choice between her family or you. Ugh.

They apparently care about their daughter, and caring about her eternal salvation is a big part of that to them. They see you as somebody who is taking away her faith, and thus her salvation. They also realize that because of your influence, their grandchildren will be lead down the road to Hell as well. Within their limited beliefs it is understandable to a certain extent why they dislike you. I do agree that their beliefs is probably the main cause of their hatred for you, and I can understand perfectly why you would feel strongly against their belief system for that reason.

Isn't it so utterly disappointing that such animosity towards another human being is the direct result of mere differences in religious belief?

-Nick