Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Family Man · 07-23-2003, 03:21 PM

Assuming that he exists, of course.

Citrusponge · 07-23-2003, 03:31 PM

-If God does not want us to have free will he would remove it from us
-We have not had free will removed from us
-Therefore, God wants us to have free will

Family Man · 07-23-2003, 03:38 PM

I presume this isn't a serious response.

pariah · 07-23-2003, 03:43 PM

b/c the bible says so. thats basically all xians need to know.

however, looking at the bible from a non xian point of view, the entire omniscience/free will thing makes god one cruel bastard...and makes the bible seem like a silly little story. which it is.

DarkBronzePlant · 07-23-2003, 03:47 PM

Does the bible actually even make any claims about freewill? I don't believe it does, but I could be wrong. I always thought it to be a convenient "get-out-of-logic-free" card that Christians invented.

At any rate, I think the Calvinists would disagree that god gave people freewill.

Citrusponge · 07-23-2003, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Family Man
I presume this isn't a serious response.

It was semi-serious

I think it makes sense though.. If God is able to remove our free will and wishes to do so, then he would, wouldn't he?

SignOfTheCross · 07-23-2003, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Citrusponge
It was semi-serious
I think it makes sense though.. If God is able to remove our free will and wishes to do so, then he would, wouldn't he?

Why BS? It was a serious response, and despite it's condemnation, a valid one.

Peace,
SOTC

Majody · 07-23-2003, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Citrusponge
It was semi-serious
I think it makes sense though.. If God is able to remove our free will and wishes to do so, then he would, wouldn't he?

Doesn't he want to get rid of sin too? Why doesn't he do that then?

SignOfTheCross · 07-23-2003, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Majody
Doesn't he want to get rid of sin too? Why doesn't he do that then?

Cause it would take away our free will.

Peace,
SOTC

Jobar · 07-23-2003, 09:17 PM

Sigh.

SOTC, there are hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of words about free will in posts in this forum. Look at the thread by rainbow walking, or go back and read any of the large number of other threads with 'free will' in the title.

It boils down to this. The only thing that free will is good for, is to allow humans to take the blame for hell. If we truly had free will, we could do things like fly, or at least will not to be affected by the will of others- free will would mean your will could never be forced, for instance you could never be enslaved or imprisoned against your will.

Answer me this. Why does God value free will? Value it so much in fact, that He allows the creature He professes to love and value the most in all his creation, to burn in hell eternally, rather than take it away in even the smallest degree?

07-23-2003, 03:21 PM	#1
Family Man Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Superior, CO USA Posts: 1,553	How do we know God wants us to have free will? Assuming that he exists, of course.

07-23-2003, 03:31 PM	#2
Citrusponge Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: UK Posts: 146	assuming God exists.. -If God does not want us to have free will he would remove it from us -We have not had free will removed from us -Therefore, God wants us to have free will

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07-23-2003, 03:38 PM	#3
Family Man Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Superior, CO USA Posts: 1,553	I presume this isn't a serious response.

07-23-2003, 03:43 PM	#4
pariah Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: الرياض Posts: 6,456	b/c the bible says so. thats basically all xians need to know. however, looking at the bible from a non xian point of view, the entire omniscience/free will thing makes god one cruel bastard...and makes the bible seem like a silly little story. which it is.

07-23-2003, 03:47 PM	#5
DarkBronzePlant Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: San Francisco, CA USA Posts: 3,568	Does the bible actually even make any claims about freewill? I don't believe it does, but I could be wrong. I always thought it to be a convenient "get-out-of-logic-free" card that Christians invented. At any rate, I think the Calvinists would disagree that god gave people freewill.

07-23-2003, 09:17 PM	#10
Jobar Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: secularcafe.org Posts: 9,525	Sigh. SOTC, there are hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of words about free will in posts in this forum. Look at the thread by rainbow walking, or go back and read any of the large number of other threads with 'free will' in the title. It boils down to this. The only thing that free will is good for, is to allow humans to take the blame for hell. If we truly had free will, we could do things like fly, or at least will not to be affected by the will of others- free will would mean your will could never be forced, for instance you could never be enslaved or imprisoned against your will. Answer me this. Why does God value free will? Value it so much in fact, that He allows the creature He professes to love and value the most in all his creation, to burn in hell eternally, rather than take it away in even the smallest degree?

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