REASONABLEST

Almost all institutions in every society reinforce a belief in some supernatural deity. From infancy our family feeds us stories of the gods (big GOD, mini god J.C., spirits, angels). We get the bible taught to us in sunday schools and temples. Sermons in the mosques. Under gods in the schools. Our friends and the clergy feed us more of it. Politicians gush religion. The media (books, magazines, newspapers, radio, tv, movies, etc.) pour out another layer. The concept is reinforced at every turn in life (birth, graduation, marriage, death). And everywhere we are rewarded, encouraged, approved if we speak god. No such approbation accompanies the expression of non-belief. Au contraire.

In fact, with all of this lifelong, incessant, comprehensive, ubiquitous, all encompassing barrage of dogma, how in this world could anyone (let alone one in seven?! -- 15% of Americans and a larger percent of Europeans profess no religious belief) ever even CONCEIVE of the idea of atheism? Where does it come from? Is it genetic? It is astounding. It's a "miracle."

It's always been a mystery to me how otherwise smart people could possibly believe in some giant overarching all-powerful intelligent being who, like Santa, sees all, knows all, and justly rewards all. Isn't this obviously wishful thinking? Do thoughtful folks actually subscribe to this fantasy as real? Sadly...yes.

It doesn't challenge our credulity to believe that people misinterpret events, embroider them, even lie about them to suit their purposes. It's understandable that people's memories are faulty, even creative. We know that demagogs and conjurers can beguile the guileless. We've seen how historical figures are glorified, even deified. There is verifiable evidence for all this.

But gods? Nothing in my experience or knowledge supports theism as being anything other than typical, human created mythology. (Out of more than 100,000 religions, they've all proved false and absurd save for a recent few whose turn will come when new faiths replace the current crop.)

So it comes down to...do we believe in something that defies the universal laws of physics and common sense, or do we believe that people who started the current god stories were mistaken or deluded or schizophrenic or thought they'd make life more meaningful and themselves more important, or just liked to spin a good yarn?

I have read scores of books, hundreds of thousands of pages on religion, by believers. I remain unconvinced. Here's what I ask of my theist friends: read just 200 pages on atheism ( e.g., What is Atheism?, by Douglas Krueger). Not because this will turn them into raving atheists, but because it will enlighten them on what atheists believe, and why. It will help them understand my view of ethics, life's purpose/meaning, etc.

Your comments appreciated.

GunnerJ

I think this needs a better home.

-Rimstalker, SL&S Mod

rubbercok3000

An athiest if he really wants to see proof of God should look at quantum.

VonEvilstein

Why, what would I see? How would anything in QM "prove God"? This is such a teaser - I feel you oght to point us in the direction you mean...

Godless Dave

For a while I thought if there is something like a god, the best way for me to get to know it would be by studying the intricacies of existence, especially those that still have an element of mystery: quantum mechanics, singularities, complex systems, chaos. But the only thing I found proof of is that I'm bad at calculus.

scumble

Too many people are lumbered with religion to start with, and are under pressure to tow the line, being in a religious environment. In the UK churchgoers are a minority. Maybe Brits aren't really that convinced and just like the heaven idea a bit. It's a lot different from America, where people dutifully go to church.

JerryM

My knowledge of QM is miniscule, but from what I do understand about it, I think it would argue against a diety. Traditional god-concepts posit a force or entity that is creative, ordered, and is responsible for a purposeful design. QM suggests that at its most basic level, the universe operates according to the laws of probability and with no absolute certainty. To me, these concepts are not really compatible.

Amaranth

Looking to QM to find god seems hauntingly similar to the way that ancient religions looked at the seasons and found god. Just because something can't be explained now doesn't mean it won't be explained in the future. Lack of understanding does not prove the supernatural.

Amaranth

Mageth

An athiest if he really wants to see proof of God should look at quantum.

"The more precisely the God is defined, the less likely the God is possible"?

happyboy

come on, rubbercok, pony up the evidence that God can be proven with quantum theory. come on. i dare ya. don't be a spoilsport now.....you obviously have data the rest of us heathen souls do not. so come on, now, enlighten us.

happyboy