Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Oxymoron · 11-09-2002, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by peeramid:
If the near-death experience is all in the brain, then why is it there?

You don't need a 'why'. Example 1: Televisions used to leave a white dot in the middle of the screen after you turned them off. Was this a design feature? I don't think so.
If you've ever written software (I'm a software engineer), you'll be aware of 'emergent behaviour', things that happen because of the interaction of several complex components. Point being, I sure as hell never intended for my program to do that and am generally surprised when it does, despite my software being 100% deterministic.

There is no purpose in NDE: it just is. Get over it.

crocodile deathroll · 11-09-2002, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Heathen Dawn:
My reply : You have wrong description of Soul. I believe you kept picturing it to be same as a living body could be. Here's some basic description of a Soul :

1. souls were created by the same force which created the Universe.
2. Souls are in form of energy, NOT physical.
3. Since Souls are energy, they follow the same principle of Science - Cannot be created (unless its Nuclear) or destroyed but can change from one form to another.
4. Souls do not split itself and give birth to a new one, thus it doesn't have lineage.

I personally subscribe to the idea that the soul is not energy at all but an information pattern. Out personally comprises of bits and bytes and not atoms

Quote:

Originally posted by Heathen Dawn:


How does the soul interact with the material body? How is it that drinking too much wine changes personality? How do you explain the <a href="http://www.epub.org.br/cm/n02/historia/phineas.htm" target="_blank">classic case of Phineas Gage</a>, whose personality changed because of an accident?

It is the price of being so closely focused on the condition of the brain as it tracks through its worldline through space and time. All the other possible worldlines are negected for the lifetime of that person

Quote:

Originally posted by Heathen Dawn:


Also, when a new baby is born, is he not a new personality? When the human population grows from a million personalities to a thousand million personalities, where do all these personalities=souls come from?

My theory is that there in only one soul and that soul happens to be your's which is just an expression of the Weak Anthropic Principle. That is where the "soul" comes from.

[ November 09, 2002: Message edited by: crocodile deathroll ]

Ramen · 11-09-2002, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Oxymoron:


You don't need a 'why'. Example 1: Televisions used to leave a white dot in the middle of the screen after you turned them off. Was this a design feature? I don't think so.
If you've ever written software (I'm a software engineer), you'll be aware of 'emergent behaviour', things that happen because of the interaction of several complex components. Point being, I sure as hell never intended for my program to do that and am generally surprised when it does, despite my software being 100% deterministic.

There is no purpose in NDE: it just is. Get over it.

Software or a TV set aren't analogous. Do we question if either have a soul? If something is happening in our brain, asking why is quite relevant, IMO. The notion that NDE's don't prove an afterlife doesn't conclude that there is no afterlife.

ps418 · 11-09-2002, 06:44 PM

[quote]Heathen Dawn: How does the soul interact with the material body? How is it that drinking too much wine changes personality? How do you explain the classic case of Phineas Gage, whose personality changed because of an accident?

Quote:

Crocodile Deathroll: It is the price of being so closely focused on the condition of the brain as it tracks through its worldline through space and time. All the other possible worldlines are negected for the lifetime of that person

That's your explanation?!? Its not very informative, I'm afraid, and it doesnt really answer the question. Why are minds 'focused on the condition of the brain' in the first place? Why are other worldlines neglected? Why do chemical and physiological changes in the brain result in changes in the mind, emotions, personality, perception, and so on?

[ November 10, 2002: Message edited by: ps418 ]

crocodile deathroll · 11-09-2002, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ps418:


That's your explanation?!? Its not very informative, I'm afraid, and it doesnt really answer the question. Why are minds 'focused on the condition of the brain' in the first place? Why are other worldlines neglected? Why do chemical and physiological changes in the brain result in changes in the mind, emotions, personality, perception, personality, and so on?

Like when you are in a PET scanner and you think of music or the experimenter plays some music to you then the part of the brain the processes music lights up and neglects say the itchy spot you have on your elbow, it is exactly as though that itchy spot does not exist . But if you are prompted to think of feeling itchy then you become aware of your itchy elbow.

Viti · 11-09-2002, 09:04 PM

I didn't know crystal wavers came in fundie versions

crocodile deathroll · 11-09-2002, 10:50 PM

There would be far too much on our minds if we were aware of every memory inside our brains at any one time and everything that was happening to out bodies.

eh · 11-10-2002, 09:54 AM

It seems that there a big difference between the new age concept of energy, and that defined by science. I think new agers see energy as some kind mystical substance, while science defines it as the ability to do work. How can you have energy without mass?

eh · 11-10-2002, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Seraphim:
As for earth as centre of the Universe, we cannot push this aside so easily, since we do not know the shape of this universe nor the position of our own galaxy within the Universe. Remember this, OUR knowledge determines what we believe, NOT our belief determining what we should accept as knowledge.

No, this one is clearly wrong. Tell me, how can there be a center of an infinite space?

Or better yet, try an experiment. Take a sheet of paper, and draw some galaxies on it. Then roll the paper into a cylinder. Which galaxy is at the center?

crocodile deathroll · 11-10-2002, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by eh:
It seems that there a big difference between the new age concept of energy, and that defined by science. I think new agers see energy as some kind mystical substance, while science defines it as the ability to do work. How can you have energy without mass?

The new age concept of energy is extremely vague but photons a unit of eletromagnetic energy do not have mass. However new agers seldom speak of photons it is usually Chi or some energy wheel inside your stomach. Which is the dotrinal nosense practiced by the outlawed <a href="http://skepdic.com/falungong.html" target="_blank">Falun Gong movement </a> and is getting all too much sympathy in the west.

Croc

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11-09-2002, 09:04 PM	#36
Viti Contributor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Down South Posts: 12,879	I didn't know crystal wavers came in fundie versions

11-09-2002, 10:50 PM	#37
crocodile deathroll Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Darwin Posts: 1,466	There would be far too much on our minds if we were aware of every memory inside our brains at any one time and everything that was happening to out bodies.

11-10-2002, 09:54 AM	#38
eh Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Canada Posts: 624	It seems that there a big difference between the new age concept of energy, and that defined by science. I think new agers see energy as some kind mystical substance, while science defines it as the ability to do work. How can you have energy without mass?

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