lpetrich

(River mentioning the Book of Enoch...)

A good discussion of Biblical cosmology and 1 Enoch is at The Flat-Earth Bible. The astronomy of 1 Enoch is a mixed bag. It mentions the obliquity of the ecliptic and how some stars are circumpolar, but it also depicts the sky as a solid bowl over a flat Earth, a bowl with doors along its rim for the Sun, Moon, and stars to enter and exit.

By comparison, the Koran tells us (18:85-86):

Yusuf Ali: Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."

Pickthall: Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness.

An omnipotent being ought to be able to avoid gaffes like that. For more on Koranic "science", check out articles by Richard Carrier and Denis Giron at the II's Islam library.

lpetrich

I find it very interesting that Xtian and Muslim evangelists make exactly the same claims on behalf of their favorite sacred books. The Bible/Koran has the greatest literary style ever, that it has the best history ever, that it is the most influential book in history, that it has excellent science, etc.

There are some differences, like Xtians being more open to using translations than Muslims (does god only speak Arabic?), but IMO, the similarities outweigh the differences.

Magus55

Actually, its not arguably the most influential book. The Bible is the most influential, published, read, and translated book on Earth. Almost the entire human population has heard of the Bible. Alot of people probably have never heard of the Quran.

Mass book publishing didn't start until the 1400's when Gutenberg invented the printable typing press, and guess what the first book was to be mass printed on that machine? The Bible.

Actually, it copied (poorly i might add) concepts that were introduced thousands of years before it, in the Old Testament of the Bible.

So is that why the Quran supports polygamy, beating women, the most people in Hell being women, women having to cover all their skin and "service" their husbands. What would have happened if Muhammed's 9 year old wife wanted a divorce?

Um no it didn't. Islam wasn't even that widespread 1100 years ago. The majority of the world was Christian. The Quran didn't set foundations for anything except Jihad and abuse of women.





Gee, i don't know, maybe because the Quran was written 2000 years after the Old Testament, and 500 after the NT? Of course, what makes you think it was a correction and not an error?

River

Have you heard the arabic Qur'an being recited by a professional muezzin?

River

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Magus55
[B]Actually, its not arguably the most influential book. The Bible is the most influential, published, read, and translated book on Earth. Almost the entire human population has heard of the Bible. Alot of people probably have never heard of the Quran.


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River says:

The Qur'an is by far the most memorized book in human history.



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Mass book publishing didn't start until the 1400's when Gutenberg invented the printable typing press, and guess what the first book was to be mass printed on that machine? The Bible.





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River says:


Did I say "mass printing"


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Actually, it copied (poorly i might add) concepts that were introduced thousands of years before it, in the Old Testament of the Bible.


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River says:

I will ignore you and pretend you didnt say anything.

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lpetrich

No, and what am I supposed to get from such an experience?

lpetrich

I think I'll let Magus55 and River slug it out. It's almost as fun as professional wrestling.

River

"
He [Dhu’l-Qarnayn] followed, until he reached the setting of the sun. He found it set in a spring of murky water. (18:85-6)

Does it not imply that the earth is flat and be considered a scientific mistake?

Answer: The problem seems to have arisen due to an erroneous translation of the said verses. A correct translation is:

He [Dhu’l-Qarnayn] made ready his resources, until he reached the place where the sun sets. He found it as if it was setting in a spring of murky water. (18:85-6)

The setting of the sun in murky waters is a figurative portrayal. When one is standing on the shores where the sun sets, the scene is very much like what the verse says. It seems as if the sun is setting in murky waters. The style adopted by the Qur’an indicates that Dhu’l-Qarnayn had conquered all the known parts of the West at that time. He had reached the end of the known land territory and now only the expanse of water remained beyond it. It must be appreciated that the language of the Qur’an is highly literary and it often employs figurative styles and constructions to convey its meanings. If one does not have a literary taste, he fails to grasp the delicacy and elegance of such
styles. "http://www.renaissance.com.pk/novquer2y1.html


Qu'ran definitely has some sort of metaphorical component or spin-off groups such as Bahaii and Sikh beliefs couldnt have formed , since they were derived mainly of the metaphorical side of Islam. Well anyways....

This should have been pretty obvious from the other Quranic verse that said that the Day merged into the night.... ( without taking exceptions to consideration, since everything has exceptions). There is no talk about the sun merging into a body of water. We tend to forget that the arabs of 1400 years ago were not primitive . They were not cavemen. They had navigation systems and ways of following the stars. Islam relies heavily on mathematics. We have 5 appointed prayers a day . We utilise the lunar calendar . And have compasses to map out the Qibla ( direction) of Mecca. The arabs were never that dumb that they would think the sun would melt into the water. uhmmm. And if the Prophet said something that dumb...Islam would have been rejected point blank. Well to show you how sophisticated
the Quran is take a look at the following verse:


[THE SUN WILL EXTINGUISH AFTER A CERTAIN PERIOD]

"And the Sun Runs its course For a period determined For it;
that is The decree of (Him) The exalted in Might, The All-Knowing."
[AI-Qur'an 36:38]*

River

perhaps, something valuable that can not be spoken about , but only experienced.

ex-xian

Yeah, it's neat seeing them tell why their mythology is better than all the others.