Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Scottyman · 12-09-2002, 09:36 AM

I can't even tell everyone here how happy I was to find this forum. I found it through the Free Thinkers web ring.

I'm 41 now (just had my latest B-Day). I grew up in a Christian Science family. For those of you not familiar with the belief system it's about faith healing. They really believe that you can heal yourself, from minor scrapes to major physical problems (even death). I think from very early on that I remember sitting in Sunday School and being told that this was the true religion and all others were the wrong way. It's so fraught with contradictory statements it's ridiculous.

Can you imagine being a 6 year old kid and having this stuff drilled into you week after week. Eventually you just end up accepting it. IMO it's similar to very tribal forms of chanting and swaying and the songs and readings are a form of brainwashing. I can remember telling myself from very early on in this process that I didn't really believe it but I had to play along or be ridiculed by my friends and family. Sheesh what a joke. I guess a GOD that loves everyone just isn't open to dissent.

As soon as I turned 17 I stopped going to church for obvious reasons. I can't tell you how lonely I've felt all my life. Everywhere you turn in life someone is trying to hammer into you the existance of god. Everyone tells you that you must get married to have sex and children (a myth created by diamond and jewelry corporations). Did you know that marriage wasn't really invented for common people until the 1600's.

It's really pathetic. Believers are so terrified of no-believers they constantly have to display their beliefs and pretty much force it on everyone else around. The Catholic church has taken this to an art form.

My family still doesn't accept the fact that I'm Athiest. They still think that magically some day I'm going to pronounce to the world that I believe once again. Yeah, right. I can't tell you how many times my dad or mom has said "someone is watching over you" or "it must have been the right thing to happen" when something good happens for me. Whe I first moved out on my own my dad could not accept my views and tried several times to give me a bible. In my opinion an evil book crammed full of people doing terrible things to eachother for the sake of religion.

I hate religion. It is the main thing I believe to be wrong with the world today. All you have to do is look at Israel and what's supposed to be the most holy land on the planet. The converse is that it's probably the most evil place on the planet. The center of all of mans worst ambitions to be closer to his god at the expense of everyone else. The Catholic church is a harbinger of all forms of abuse to women and children while the hierchy sits in Rome in opulance. The others are no better. They all say it's OkeyDokey to kill another human being in the NAME OF GOD! Our own country is going to wage war against another country in what is worldwide considered an illegal act to dipose another countries leader. They will all go to church on the eve of destruction to get comfort in knowing what they are doing is right in GODS eyes.

Does anyone else agree with me?

Why is it that the supposed children of GOD commit some of the most attrocious crimes against hummanity and their supposed GOD lets them get away with it?

Another question. Yes, I've felt very alone all my life. I found that my sons grandfather and their family were Athiest when I was in my 20's so I've had some contact but that's been pretty much it. I'm surrounded (like Custer) by flaming religious nuts. I think that that it's a form of mass delusion and that the bulk of the human race is just subject to this form of brainwashing. I however am fortunate enough to be spared that insanity. What I'd like to know is, How many of us are there (statisticly speaking)?

Every girl I ever dated was either Christian, Catholic or Jewish. Where does it end and when is the rest of the world going to wake up?

I guess I've vented enough for now.

Harumi · 12-09-2002, 10:59 AM

I would recommend that this be placed in the Secular Lifestyle and Support forum.

A lot of people have suffered what you have gone through. Some, even physical abuse and heartache. Know that you are not alone, and that everyone sympathizes with you...well, the atheists and some nice theists here at least.

southernhybrid · 12-09-2002, 11:31 AM

Yes, I agree with Harumi. Move this to secular support so we can all give Scottyman some hugs.

Scottyman · 12-09-2002, 11:51 AM

Sorry, I'm new to this forum. I'm really ok nowadays. It took me a long time for me to realize that I wasn't the one with the problem. When you are constantly force fed a diet of religion all your life even though it goes against all rational thought, you start to think something might be wrong with you. I'm glad this forum is available.

missus_gumby · 12-09-2002, 02:58 PM

Quote:

What I'd like to know is, How many of us are there (statisticly speaking)?

Scottyman, I'm fairly sure that the generally accepted figure for non-believers in the US is around 10% of the population - or somewhere near 27,000,000 people. Sadly, that also means the other 90% are believers of one stripe or another. It seems that your country is the most religious in the industrialised world, which I find most odd.

Over here in Europe, religion is slowly dying out - especially in Northern Europe. In the UK, the openly religious are in a significant minority, and the same situation can be said of the Scandinavian coutries too.

I'm glad you made it here! If there's anything you want to get off your chest, there is a forum <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=47" target="_blank">here</a> especially designed for you to let rip. Heh heh!

Martin

Fiach · 12-09-2002, 03:40 PM

Oi, I agree with Missus_Gumby's post. I live in the far north of the UK and it is very hard to find a good religious argument even in a pub. In Inverness, almost all of our churches have been converted into banks, tourist centers, libraries, museums, Highland Council Offices, business offices, and believe it or not apartments. Few are active and none are full on Sundays.

I know that while we have an established religion, here Atheists/agnostics outnumber Christians and Muslims combined. It is the same in France (more than 50% Atheists), Netherlands (about 50% but an incredible 79% among those under age 20). Similar numbers pop up for Scandinavian nations, Hungary, Russia, Romania, and just under half for Germany.

In another post I suggested a genetic reason for the American religiosity and North European lack thereof. We had horrid wars between competing religious fanatics in Scotland, Ireland, England, France, Netherlands, Germany (thiry years war). The losers were unable to impose their stricter fundamentalism (Covenenters, "Dissenters," Radical Protestants, Radical Reformers) upon the relatively more liberal orthodoxies (Anglican, Later Lutheran, Presbyterian).

So those fanatics emmigrated by the millions to the Americas and they took their DNA with them. Ergo, 5-10% of Americans are sceptics verses over 50% in Europe. You might consider that there is a new aspect to darwinian selection (environmental adaptation, sexual selection, and religious selection?)

Fiach

Scottyman · 12-09-2002, 06:36 PM

No matter! I'm very happy to be amongst the minority over here. You should know this though. I have literally been threatened with bodily harm by religious fanatics in the past for speaking out about religion. I don't voluntarilly talk about Atheism in the open but surprisingly over the last year I have met a couple. What's really sad is that our form of government is supposed to be completely free from religious bias in making public decisions. I'm sure you can figure out what the reality is. Maybe it should be called The Catholic/Jewish United State of Religious Americans. CJUSRA? Hmmmm, maybe I'm too much of an anarchist (antichrist to Jerry Fallwell).

Jobar · 12-09-2002, 07:13 PM

Hi Scottyman, and welcome to II. Any number of us call this forum our virtual home; I think you will fit right in.

I'm going to move your topic here to our Secular Lifestyles forum; get someone there to link you to our 'Atheists' Testimony' thread. (I'm on page 3!) Jobar.

12-09-2002, 09:36 AM	#1
Scottyman Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Burbank, CA Posts: 138	I'm very grateful I can't even tell everyone here how happy I was to find this forum. I found it through the Free Thinkers web ring. I'm 41 now (just had my latest B-Day). I grew up in a Christian Science family. For those of you not familiar with the belief system it's about faith healing. They really believe that you can heal yourself, from minor scrapes to major physical problems (even death). I think from very early on that I remember sitting in Sunday School and being told that this was the true religion and all others were the wrong way. It's so fraught with contradictory statements it's ridiculous. Can you imagine being a 6 year old kid and having this stuff drilled into you week after week. Eventually you just end up accepting it. IMO it's similar to very tribal forms of chanting and swaying and the songs and readings are a form of brainwashing. I can remember telling myself from very early on in this process that I didn't really believe it but I had to play along or be ridiculed by my friends and family. Sheesh what a joke. I guess a GOD that loves everyone just isn't open to dissent. As soon as I turned 17 I stopped going to church for obvious reasons. I can't tell you how lonely I've felt all my life. Everywhere you turn in life someone is trying to hammer into you the existance of god. Everyone tells you that you must get married to have sex and children (a myth created by diamond and jewelry corporations). Did you know that marriage wasn't really invented for common people until the 1600's. It's really pathetic. Believers are so terrified of no-believers they constantly have to display their beliefs and pretty much force it on everyone else around. The Catholic church has taken this to an art form. My family still doesn't accept the fact that I'm Athiest. They still think that magically some day I'm going to pronounce to the world that I believe once again. Yeah, right. I can't tell you how many times my dad or mom has said "someone is watching over you" or "it must have been the right thing to happen" when something good happens for me. Whe I first moved out on my own my dad could not accept my views and tried several times to give me a bible. In my opinion an evil book crammed full of people doing terrible things to eachother for the sake of religion. I hate religion. It is the main thing I believe to be wrong with the world today. All you have to do is look at Israel and what's supposed to be the most holy land on the planet. The converse is that it's probably the most evil place on the planet. The center of all of mans worst ambitions to be closer to his god at the expense of everyone else. The Catholic church is a harbinger of all forms of abuse to women and children while the hierchy sits in Rome in opulance. The others are no better. They all say it's OkeyDokey to kill another human being in the NAME OF GOD! Our own country is going to wage war against another country in what is worldwide considered an illegal act to dipose another countries leader. They will all go to church on the eve of destruction to get comfort in knowing what they are doing is right in GODS eyes. Does anyone else agree with me? Why is it that the supposed children of GOD commit some of the most attrocious crimes against hummanity and their supposed GOD lets them get away with it? Another question. Yes, I've felt very alone all my life. I found that my sons grandfather and their family were Athiest when I was in my 20's so I've had some contact but that's been pretty much it. I'm surrounded (like Custer) by flaming religious nuts. I think that that it's a form of mass delusion and that the bulk of the human race is just subject to this form of brainwashing. I however am fortunate enough to be spared that insanity. What I'd like to know is, How many of us are there (statisticly speaking)? Every girl I ever dated was either Christian, Catholic or Jewish. Where does it end and when is the rest of the world going to wake up? I guess I've vented enough for now.

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12-09-2002, 10:59 AM	#2
Harumi Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N/A Posts: 3,184	I would recommend that this be placed in the Secular Lifestyle and Support forum. A lot of people have suffered what you have gone through. Some, even physical abuse and heartache. Know that you are not alone, and that everyone sympathizes with you...well, the atheists and some nice theists here at least.

12-09-2002, 11:31 AM	#3
southernhybrid Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: heavenly Georgia Posts: 3,862	Yes, I agree with Harumi. Move this to secular support so we can all give Scottyman some hugs.

12-09-2002, 11:51 AM	#4
Scottyman Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Burbank, CA Posts: 138	Sorry, I'm new to this forum. I'm really ok nowadays. It took me a long time for me to realize that I wasn't the one with the problem. When you are constantly force fed a diet of religion all your life even though it goes against all rational thought, you start to think something might be wrong with you. I'm glad this forum is available.

12-09-2002, 03:40 PM	#6
Fiach Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Scotland, UK Posts: 602	Oi, I agree with Missus_Gumby's post. I live in the far north of the UK and it is very hard to find a good religious argument even in a pub. In Inverness, almost all of our churches have been converted into banks, tourist centers, libraries, museums, Highland Council Offices, business offices, and believe it or not apartments. Few are active and none are full on Sundays. I know that while we have an established religion, here Atheists/agnostics outnumber Christians and Muslims combined. It is the same in France (more than 50% Atheists), Netherlands (about 50% but an incredible 79% among those under age 20). Similar numbers pop up for Scandinavian nations, Hungary, Russia, Romania, and just under half for Germany. In another post I suggested a genetic reason for the American religiosity and North European lack thereof. We had horrid wars between competing religious fanatics in Scotland, Ireland, England, France, Netherlands, Germany (thiry years war). The losers were unable to impose their stricter fundamentalism (Covenenters, "Dissenters," Radical Protestants, Radical Reformers) upon the relatively more liberal orthodoxies (Anglican, Later Lutheran, Presbyterian). So those fanatics emmigrated by the millions to the Americas and they took their DNA with them. Ergo, 5-10% of Americans are sceptics verses over 50% in Europe. You might consider that there is a new aspect to darwinian selection (environmental adaptation, sexual selection, and religious selection?) Fiach

12-09-2002, 06:36 PM	#7
Scottyman Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Burbank, CA Posts: 138	No matter! I'm very happy to be amongst the minority over here. You should know this though. I have literally been threatened with bodily harm by religious fanatics in the past for speaking out about religion. I don't voluntarilly talk about Atheism in the open but surprisingly over the last year I have met a couple. What's really sad is that our form of government is supposed to be completely free from religious bias in making public decisions. I'm sure you can figure out what the reality is. Maybe it should be called The Catholic/Jewish United State of Religious Americans. CJUSRA? Hmmmm, maybe I'm too much of an anarchist (antichrist to Jerry Fallwell).

12-09-2002, 07:13 PM	#8
Jobar Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: secularcafe.org Posts: 9,525	Hi Scottyman, and welcome to II. Any number of us call this forum our virtual home; I think you will fit right in. I'm going to move your topic here to our Secular Lifestyles forum; get someone there to link you to our 'Atheists' Testimony' thread. (I'm on page 3!) Jobar.

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