BreezeinaTree

Just a generic reply...I will probably answer most of the posts here in spurts. So don't take my absence to mean I've backed out.

K

Breeze,

Since you brought it up, I'll indulge you. What tests have you run to prove that God exists and what were the empirical data you got from running those tests? How close did the results of the tests line up with the predicted results? What was the experimental error in the tests in question? What steps did you take to eliminate other natural causes in your tests? Have you run similar tests to prove that God is the Christian God? Have you done any tests to determine the traits of God?

sighhswolf

1. What do you think happens to you after your death?
Dust to dust, ashes to ashes.
In the reality in which we live there is nothing
that can be proven to exist indefinately.
The life cycle of the natural universe is our only guide at the moment.
That cycle birth, a progressive existance, and death when the maximum age limit that lends itself to the sustainability of the organism is reached.
If another reality exists in which life forms are sustainable indefinately without biological breakdowns...... or the life energy is preserved after the maximum sustainable length of service biologically is reached we have yet to document evidence of it.
When you have reached the natural limits of your biological systems and the inevitable breakdowns begin.... your body dies, and when the body dies so also does the intellect..... because without functioning systems to feed the brain it is incapable of existing on it's own.
And so far there have been no designated organs that might contain the religionists "soul".
If that "soul" is an energy of some kind, it would not be able to sustain itself without a
source to convert it from matter into energy.
Personally I think we do the earth a great disservice.
We have interupted the natural flow of life here on our planet by tampering with the natural process of decay.
The natural process nourishes the earth and in so doing actually gives mankind our only true chance of immortality, and rebirth.
Not the christian mythology, but actual rebirth as nourishment for new growth.
Wolf

Starboy

Interesting to see if she answers. Could this be YACCD (Yet Another Case of Christian Deception). If not with us at least with herself.

Starboy

Perchance

Hi Breeze,

Thanks for your response.

But many of those Christians were doing what they did with approval, either of the society around them or of the Church leaders. Jesus didn't come back and say, "Stop doing that! That is contrary to my teachings!"

Also, how were the people the Christians harmed or killed hurting them? By living alone on the edge of town, or writing books they didn't agree with... how does that hurt others?

Of course. The same thing can happen with any other institution; civil servants misuse their power, and so do teachers, and politicians, and lawyers, and doctors.

However, usually the excuses that those people use are human excuses- they're doing it because of an addiction to power, or because someone else annoyed them, or because of something else that lies within the realm of human psychology. The Church tries to conceal its abuses by the "cloak of God," if you will, and I've even heard some theists say that it doesn't really matter what the Catholic priests do; God will see them and punish them in the afterlife.

Now imagine that from the perspective of an atheist who doesn't believe in an afterlife and sees no reason for religion to receive the special treatment that it does, as if it were something- pardon the pun- sacred.


Not all non-believers. Many, like myself, have other reasons- a whole complex of reasons, small in themselves but weighty when added up- that point to the wrongness of religion. I don't think that Catholic sexual abuse cases in themselves are threatening to the Catholic faith. It's what they indicate- among other things, that celibacy is a lot rarer than was thought, that the Church has knowingly covered up sexual abuse, and that men of the cloth are no holier than anyone else- that might threaten believers' faith.

I've never been a theist, so I didn't have the experience of being raised in a religious family, and didn't reject religion because of something that my parents said or did. I think that rejecting religion because of just one incident is rather silly. On the other hand, there are dozens of believers- perhaps hundreds, perhaps thousands- who convert because of a single "experience of God." I think it's silly the other way as well.

Is that a comfort to their victims, though? It seems to be a return to "God will punish them." But do we really have an assurance of that, with all the conflicting interpretations of Christian doctrine? And if God doesn't exist, then shouldn't we do what we can to rectify such injustices here on earth, rather than patting the victims on the head and saying, "Don't worry, they weren't TRUE Christians?"

The Bible claims to be the mind of God.

And the Koran is the word of Allah. And the Hindu scriptures are the words of the Hindu dieties. And the Book of Ipusis is the word of the IPU.

Why focus on a single religion and holy book? Why look at a single kind of theism? Why not study all the world's religions, and try to sift out any "truth" from among them?

I'm curious here, because in your OP you seemed to think that many atheists focused too much attention on Christianity- and yet it seems as if many Christians do the same thing.

Breezeinatree,

I hope so. I really do. If I sound pessimistic, it's only because so many theists have so many different interpretations of what "the teachings of Christ" are that it's possible for a theist to be internally self-consistent and yet not make much sense to an atheist.

I hope that we can empathize. I look on religion as a foreign country, one where the language and customs are much harder to learn than usual, so I'm interested in learning anything I can about it.

Again, welcome.

-Perchance.

Liquidrage

Obviously if we were to accept a religion based on the morale quality of the followers then everyone should be a Tibetan Budhist.

But we don't. How people behave under a religious influence has nothing to do with whether the religion is true or not.

There has been a claim made by a person who also claims to be objective. And that claim is empherical evidence for Christianty.
Lets cut to the chase, I want to see the evidence.

gilly54

Dear Breez,

I can give an example that encompasses both the "lying for their faith" and "promoting ignorance", which WAS answered by Janyana: Creationism.

How do you rationalize that the Bible says the Earth is only 6,000 years old, yet scientific carbon dating and fossil record evidence show it is quite a bit older? How do you scientifically explain the great flood? Do you think that Noah fit every specie of creature in his arc, including T-Rexes and brontosaurs? How about polar bears which don't come anywhere near the Middle East? Or the American pronghorn antelope?

I was interested by your saying
Do you believe it IS the mind of God, or not?

Gilly

RJS

Congrats!

GunnerJ

On this not I'd like to invite you to join <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=45&t=001148" target="_blank">this discussion.</a> I'll admit that I got rather... abrasive towards the end, but I feel that St. Bob's replies are a rather shallow attempt to pull the wool over our eyes and deflect from direct challenges made to him. So long as you don't insult anyone's intellegence like thet (and you seem nice and sincere enough not ot do so) I doubt things will get ugly.

Dark Jedi

It may come as a surprise to you, but many (most, all?) of us have read these books too. Some of our more eloquent have critiqued them, pointed out fallacy and outright deceptions throughout.

It is the common consensus that Strobel and McDowell were god haters, not atheists prior to going back in to the flock. They called themselves atheist, but had no real concept what an atheist is. I suspect they had the mislead concept that you came here with.
Big difference, as an atheist does not believe in god, they cannot hate said god, no?