Felstorm

Remember Deut. 18:22, "If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him." If someone makes a false prophecy, and they have claimed to be a prophet of God, then they are false prophets and are not to be listened to.

Do the Witnesses claim to be the prophet of God? Yes, they do.

In 1972 the Jehovah's Witness Watchtower claimed to be the prophet of God.

IDENTIFYING THE "PROPHET" -- "So does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come? These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet?...This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian Witnesses...Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a ‘prophet' of God. It is another thing to prove it." The Watchtower, 4/1/72, p. 197. (See Deut. 18:21)

1897 "Our Lord, the appointed King, is now present, since October 1874," Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 4, page 621.

1899 "...the ‘battle of the great day of God Almighty' (Revelation 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced." The Time Is at Hand, page 101 (1908 edition).

1916 "The Bible chronology herein presented shows that the six great 1000 year days beginning with Adam are ended, and that the great 7th Day, the 1000 years of Christ's Reign, began in 1873." The Time Is at Hand, page ii, (forward).

1918 "Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection." Millions Now Living Will Never Die, page 89.

1922 "The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures than 1914." The Watchtower 9/1/22, page 262.

1923 "Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge." The Watchtower, page 106 4/1/23.

1925 "The year 1925 is here. With great expectation Christians have looked forward to this year. Many have confidently expected that all members of the body of Christ will be changed to heavenly glory during this year. This may be accomplished. It may not be. In his own due time God will accomplish his purposes concerning his people. Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year." The Watchtower, 1/1/25, page. 3.

1925 "It is to be expected that Satan will try to inject into the minds of the consecrated, the thought that 1925 should see an end to the work." The Watchtower, Sept, 1925 page 262.

1926 "Some anticipated that the work would end in 1925, but the Lord did not state so. The difficulty was that the friends inflated their imaginations beyond reason; and that when their imaginations burst asunder, they were inclined to throw away everything." The Watchtower, page 232.

1931 "There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah's faithful ones on earth concerning the years 1917, 1918, and 1925, which disappointment lasted for a time...and they also learned to quit fixing dates." Vindication, page 338.

1941 "Receiving the gift, the marching children clasped it to them, not a toy or plaything for idle pleasure, but the Lord's provided instrument for most effective work in the remaining months before Armageddon." The Watchtower, 9/15/41, page 288.

1968 "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an ‘end to the world', even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The ‘end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing?.. Missing from such people were God's truths and evidence that he was using and guiding them." Awake, 10/8/68.

1968 "Why are you looking forward to 1975?" The Watchtower, 8/15/68, page 494.

Azathoth

So,if the understanding now is the right one,the Truth.The previous understanding was not the Truth,then?

It looks suspiciously like the interpretation of the bible,by the Governing Body of the Jehovah's Witnesses,about the end times,was wrong.And for quite a long time.Would you agree here?

Just to make sure we're perfectly clear.I'm referring to the teaching in the picture shown.This is not,nor has ever been,correct.Right?

Azathoth

More fun with quotes.One way that they avoid claiming prophet status(at least more times than they can wiggle out of),but still pulling off predictions,is by claiming that they are the chosen channel of communication from God.

http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/channel.htm

As Jehovah's Witnesses are reminded time and time again,they are the only source of Truth."Spiritual food" in 'hovatalk.

The thing is,unless God's completely batty,the channel seems to be broken.Or maybe He just decided to change the channel.

YHWHtruth

Fel writes:
Remember Deut. 18:22, "If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him." If someone makes a false prophecy, and they have claimed to be a prophet of God, then they are false prophets and are not to be listened to.



(Deuteronomy 18:22) when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it. You must not get frightened at him.'

Jehovah's Witnesses do not claim to be inspired prophets! You above comment goes out the window!

Max

YHWHtruth

Fel wrote:

So where is Jesus? He said he was coming back before they were all gone. I wanna see some fire and brimstone dammit.


(2 Peter 3:3-6) For YOU know this first, that in the last days there will come ridiculers with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires 4 and saying: "Where is this promised presence of his? Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep [in death], all things are continuing exactly as from creation's beginning." 5 For, according to their wish, this fact escapes their notice, that there were heavens from of old and an earth standing compactly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God; 6 and by those [means] the world of that time suffered destruction when it was deluged with water.

Max

Felstorm

There is this....

Then we have....

Is this, or is this not "predicting the future"?

3 : one who foretells future events : PREDICTOR

A.K.A. a "prophet".

And where is Abram Isaac and Jacob? They predicted that they would return to the condition of human perfection. Otherwise known as "resurrection". Where are they? I wanna see some undead old prophet dudes. I knwo you must just be hiding Moses at that Beth Sarim mansion in San Deigo.

False prophecy. Clear and blatant. They lied and then covered their asses. And you bought it. And they most definately claim to be chosen by "god" you can even see the progession in the documentation of their literature.
Who Appoints Elders and Congregational Servants?

1879 - Congregations by vote (1993PROC 054)
1919 - Jesus (1971WTWR 12 15 748-50)
1920s– After registering as a 'service organization', subject to WTBTS appointed Director (1993PROC 212)
1932 – Elective elder position abolished entirely (1993PROC 212)
1938 – President of WTBTS (1965WTWR 07 15 428)
1955 - Governing Body (for all congregation servants: confirmation of existing practice) (1955WTWR 06 01 333)
1959 – Holy Spirit (1959WTWR 06 01 339)
1965 - Anointed Remnant (1965WTWR 07 15 428)
1967 – Governing Body (1967WTWR 09 15 563, 1972WTWR 08 01 458)
1974 - Holy Spirit (1974WTWR 07 01 413)
1976 – Jehovah (1976WTWR 02 15 118)
1985 - Holy Spirit with the Governing Body (1985WTWR 08 01 31)
1993 – Governing Body (1993PROC 054)
1994 – Holy Spirit (1994WTWR 01 15 16-7)
1996 – Governing Body (1996WTWR 01 15 15)
1997 – Jehovah (1997WTWR 03 01 28)

More biblical brainwash and fear mongering. If they won't listen to irrationality, brow beat them with fear.

So if I get this right. If you don't drop what you are doing and become a JW you are going to be destroyed, at a cataclysm that has been predicted three times by the JW organisation, and failed to come to pass and you expect us to believe you? Using the deluge as an example is very poor because there is no evidence for a global scale flood. In fact the only evidence that is to be had of a large scale flood phenomenon is localised to low lying areas around the Mesopotamian and Eurasian continent.

When faced with the cold hard paper upon which these things were predicted and then they are shown to you. You comletely deny their relevance based upon selective quotation of more recent remarks made denying that they made predicitons in the past by the same organisational leaders!

They make a false prediciton, make false claims to divine "inspiration", and then they tell you they are not responsible for what they say because they "god's messengers'? By the definitions I have provided for "prophet", and not not some obscure dictionary, prove in fact that your organisation has indeed made false prophecies, and false claims of divinity. Your organisation is a fraud. Your organisation is the very thing that they accused the rest of Christanity for being. It's the ultimate hypocrisy. Your organisations credibility was null and void the first time they made such a prediciton back in the late 1800's that did not come true. Instead they classically moved the goal posts around and dressed it up to be something else with more selective quotation, or in their words "divine revelations of the scriptures.".

In fact! You can't read one of their books or literature that doesn't make a post hoc, egro propter hoc fallacy that assumes that all other religions, Christendom particularly, are false and that the JW organisation is the only source of "spiritual food". It's BS and they don't even bother to hide it but dismiss it with a casual flair that would stun even the Vatican.

Dont forget people. I'm "misreprestenting" the WTBTS because I'm telling the truth about their history. The Jehovahs Witnesses is a perfect example of a group of Christians generating interest in their sect based upon sensationalist claims of divine cataclysm and apocalype, that have failed to come true... three times in a row. I think that they have finally learned not to make these asinine predictions and now stick to using the fear mongering tactic of implied eternal destruction and a false sense of urgency.

It's could come tomorrow! It can't be too long now...Now....no...now!....umm...any minute now. It's coming real soon! You'll see and you'll all be sorry! Neener neener neener!

I predict, without any divine inspiration, that they will be doing this for another 100 years.

Of course this message with all the biblical verses and quotations to prop up the house of cards, it may look very attractive. To a lay person it can seem very intimidating and on the surface appears to be "the truth" but when you put it to critical examination, there really isn't any more truth in it than the Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy. They have not one shred, iota, or mote of solid proof of the existence of their magical being. Just like all the other religions that claim to have a supernatural deity. What is even sadder is these people don't even have any formal training in theology, in fact they tell people NOT to go to college and study religion because it might "undermine their faith".

SLD

Didn't Paul say somewhere that some of those alive in his time would see the return? Somebody with more knowledge of his writings help me out here.

SLD

YHWHtruth

1925-The Return of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? At one time Jehovah's Witnesses believed that the resurrection of faithful men of old, including Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, would occur in the year 1925 CE (AD). The reasons for such a belief were documented in 1920 in a publication entitled, Millions Now Living Will Never Die! by Joseph F. Rutherford, then President of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.

Early on in this publication the reader is invited to "examine each point carefully. . . compare the argument with the Scriptures cited, and view the same in the light of present day events which are discernible to all eyes, and upon this evidence reach a conclusion." A bit later on in the study, Rutherford states: "The Bible is the only true source of knowledge upon which man can base a hope for the future. . . . Nothing, then, but an understanding and appreciation of the Word of God can lead man into the right way and unfold to him visions of the blessings that are to come." Did Rutherford and other witnesses find something in the Bible that suggested that faithful men of old would be resurrected in the year 1925? Or were they given this knowledge in a dream from Jehovah, or though some other means of divine inspiration?

Rutherford based his conclusions on an incorrect understanding of the jubilee system that Jehovah inaugurated with Israel. (Lev 25: 1-17) In the early 1920s, the Witnesses
believed Israel entered the land of Canaan in the year 1575 BCE, and that 70 jubilees of 50 years each should be kept, for a total of 3,500 years, after which time the restoration of all things would begin. But the scriptures Rutherford refers to (Jer 25:11; 2Ch 36:17-21) do not teach that there would be 70 jubilees prior to an antitypical restoration. Nonetheless, the Witnesses of that time believed that 1925 would "mark the resurrection of the faithful worthies of old and the beginning of reconstruction." Thus, "millions of people now on the earth will be still on the earth in 1925. Then, based on the promises set forth in the divine Word, we must reach the positive and indisputable conclusion that millions now living will never die."

On December 11, 1921, in New York City's Hippodrome, Rutherford gave a talk which included references to 1925 and other dates. After referring to the "Jubilee system of the Jews" and explaining how this "foreshadowed the Millennial reign of Christ," he confidently stated that from the year 1575 BCE 70 jubilees of 50 years "must end in 1925," claiming that "1925 is definitely fixed in the Scriptures." We can see that Rutherford's confidence was based on his interpretation of the Bible, not on some inspired revelation he claimed to have been given. He concluded his talk by saying:

It was because Rutherford believed so strongly in what he thought the Scriptures taught, something he believed was "based on the promises set forth in the divine Word," that he could refer to his conclusions concerning 1925 as "indisputable". This does not constitute a false prophecy, but a false interpretation, and all imperfect persons have made false interpretations at one time or another. Rutherford's overconfidence on matters of chronology should serve as warning to all of us: Never present interpretations of Bible prophecy dogmatically, for they are only interpretations, and Bible prophecy is not always easy to understand.

Max

YHWHtruth

Fel remember keep free from GIGO!
Garbage in Garbage out

Max

Radcliffe Emerson

I cannot recall the exact passage, but Jesus himself tells his followers some of them will still be alive to see his return. And John of Patmos wrote Revelation to his followers because the Romans were killing Christians, and told them to take heart because Jesus was about to return and save them. (yes, Revelation was written about Rome, not some coming end time).
Well, whaddya know?
Jesus didn't return.

Go figure.

And, Hal Lindsay stated in 1988 the end times were occurring because the bible says they'll happen 40 years after Israel becomes a nation again.

Looks like ol' Hal missed the boat too.