Wyz_sub10

This from <a href="http://www.skepdic.com:" target="_blank">www.skepdic.com:</a>

Now, I know that atheists are not going to be big on canonization at all (nor are many theists). But I have a question for each of you.

For atheists, what is the purpose of this movement? Of course I have my own strong opinions of this, but I'm wondering what everyone's first reaction is. It's obvious that it's meant to further deify some (the religious) members of the WTC tragedy. But what is the real intent here?

For theists, what are your thought on canonization? My mom and dad gave me the middle named "Christopher" from the saint. He was 'de-canonized' and now I've been told "well, it's your choice to believe or not." (seems like questionable church policy)

I know there are "rules" for canonization, and I don't see how he could possibly meet any of the criteria. I tend to think many people are canonized "in retrospect". That is to say, no one would have thought them saintly when they were alive, but die tragically (e.g. Grace Kelly) and suddenly you're saintly.

brighid

Well, it's a bit ironic that they will be cannonizing an openly gay priest! But that won't stop them from somehow neglecting that part of his life, or twisting it way out of proportion.

Brighid

Captain Pedantic

Personally, I'm not interested in saints unless they did something really cool/ridiculous/unintentionally funny, like standing on top of a pole for thirty years, and then accidentally falling off and dying. Or by demonstrating their unique self-control by sleeping chastely between two beautiful virgins. Or by drinking an entire bowl of pus for some reason I can't remember. Or by not washing forever.

I mean, just dying when you didn't mean to doesn't cut it in my book. Surely having all your teeth pulled out while being tortured for your faith is more along the saintly lines?

Maybe if I were a Catholic, I'd understand.

Wyz_sub10

Ah, high school. Does it count as self-control if it really wasn't up to you?

I was Catholic. I didn't understand then and I don't understand now. As a Catholic, you look at saints as those who have set a standard to live by and who have been anointed by god somehow. Some examples seem "obvious" (Peter, Paul, etc.)

Some seem grasping. Some seem downright fraudulent. And some seem like they had their names scribbled on the Pope's "saintbook" as a joke and they ended up making it through.

Hedwig

As an atheist, I really couldn't care less about canonization. But as a gay rights activist, I'm rooting for Father Mycahl on this one. The guy was actually one of the first clergymen in the early to mid eighties to actually speak up on behalf of people who had HIV and AIDS and lended his voice to those fighting to get HIV/AIDS research off the ground. I respect him for what he did as an activist. He seemed to have a great deal of compassion for other human beings. If anything canonizing a man like that would, at least in my mind, be a step out of the dark ages for the Catholic church.

Captain Pedantic

What's the betting that the church'll go to the greatest lengths it can to avoid the subject of The Dreaded Gay? I rate it as a sixty percent chance, but I'm not known for my accurate predictions.

Wyz_sub10

It's not the RC church that will deal with the issue much at all, as much as it will be the fundie churches who use that fact as a further example of RCism as evil and "antichristorary".

B. H. Manners

Here is a question for the former Catholics here. If homosexuality is some great abomination in the Catholic Church's eyes, why was this gay priest not defrocked? It seems to me the Catholic Church does not know what it believes anymore.

Wyz_sub10

Well, you see, gays that enter the priesthood do so because they know they are sinners. Therefore, they turn their lives over to god's service and agree to live their lives in a "chaste" manner.

The RC church acknowledges that the feelings may be satan-planted and not their fault, but the actions are. So they join the priesthood, throw off the shackles of sexual debauchery, and give it up to the g-man. Yo.

Anyhoo...that's my understanding, IIRC.

[ September 28, 2002: Message edited by: Wyz_sub10 ]</p>

RJS

I'm a former Catholic. They really confuse the faith by adding the whole saint thing. Praying to saints - give me a break. Praying to Mary - come on. Seeing a priest for confession - this is silly. Calling the Pope the Holy Father - huh?

They seem to do everything possible to obfuscate the basic fact that Jesus is the Son of God. I praise the Catholic church for carrying the faith for centuries - but it really is messed up.