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Old 06-22-2003, 08:23 PM   #1
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Question Question for non-religious theists: What kind of God do you believe in?

For those of you who are not Christian, or any other religion, but you still believe in a God, my questions are: What kind of God or Power do you believe in? Do you believe in an afterlife? If so, what do you think it is like? Do you speculate on such things, or do you not think about it much because you can never know the answers?
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Old 06-23-2003, 09:33 AM   #2
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Originally posted by Carrie
What kind of God or Power do you believe in?


A personal being, not an impersonal force, who is light, love, holiness and fatherhood. He is distinct from His creation. He created the universe 15 billion years ago, and us, using processes of natural law (evolution). He created both the natural plane that we know and the supernatural astral planes where we go after bodily death. His existence is hidden during life on the natural plane, but everyone gets to meet Him upon death. He looks not upon what people believe, but upon how they act towards one another. Salvation is by works alone, not by faith.

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Do you believe in an afterlife? If so, what do you think it is like? Do you speculate on such things, or do you not think about it much because you can never know the answers?
I believe in the afterlife as described by NDEs and mediumship, regardless of what sceptics (Susan Blackmore comes to mind) may say. The afterlife is like this present life, full of development and personal progress, only with a different awareness of things.

Upon bodily death the spiritual body gets out of the material body. It stands face-to-face with a Loving Light Being (God), who shows it a review of its life. Acts of love and kindness towards other beings on earthly life are rewarded, and omission thereof is punished (but punishment is not eternal, and ends with repentance).

The above was an answer to Carrie's questions. Please don't ask me for evidence for my beliefs, as I have none, and I'm not willing to debate my faith, to put it under trial.
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Old 06-23-2003, 10:41 AM   #3
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Emotional:

I hope for something like what you describe, but I just don't know. I'm agnostic. I think about stuff like this sometimes, just for fun, but I don't worry about it or count on it. If I just die, and that's it, that's okay with me too.

The only reason I consider what you describe a possibility is because of things people have experienced, such as NDE's, or drug experiences, or out of body experiences while meditating, etc. Ancient people describe heaven like visions, and I don't doubt that they had these visions.

Everyone's supernatural experiences are different, but maybe those things that are similar point to some kind of truth.
For example, many people have said they saw Elvis when they died. I don't doubt that, but I don't think that means that Elvis is the official greeter welcoming people into heaven. Most people who have had a NDE say they experienced incredible peace and happiness and an unexplainable knowing. So maybe there is something to that. Sounds nice doesn't it? But some people experience bad things. So it seems to me, if NDE's are real, then people can experience both good and bad when they die. Maybe neither good or bad experiences are eternal. They're just experiences.

I just think it's possible that when we die, our consciousness lives on in some way. I sometimes like to think about what that experience might be like. Maybe it's like a dream that you have some control over.

Who knows? It all sounds kind of silly, but it sure would be nice to live on in some happy way. That's what people all over the world have been hoping for, for thousands of years.

And as far as a God, if there is one, I don't believe in a personal God who has a plan or answers prayer. I don't pray. If there's a God, I guess I'd just describe Everything as God. That which has always existed is God. Something like, the energy of the entire universe is God. And when we die we go back into the oneness of it all.

Or some such crap like that! Hearing myself talk like this is making me irritated. It's all just a fantasy really.

I can't know for sure if there's a God or heaven or not. I'm open to the possibility that there is not. So I'm an Agnostic who's leaning toward Atheism. I may be able to be convinced that there is no afterlife and all NDE's are bogus, but I have not yet looked into what the skeptics have to say about them.
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Old 06-23-2003, 11:04 AM   #4
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Originally posted by Carrie
I hope for something like what you describe, but I just don't know. I'm agnostic. I think about stuff like this sometimes, just for fun, but I don't worry about it or count on it. If I just die, and that's it, that's okay with me too.


For me, the thought of death as a final end of all is a non-option. My fixed assumption, my unassailable dogma, is that there is life after death, and no evidence could make me believe otherwise. Yes, I could stop believing in life after death right now, but it'll only hold on until the next news of a SARS-like disease.

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The only reason I consider what you describe a possibility is because of things people have experienced, such as NDE's, or drug experiences, or out of body experiences while meditating, etc. Ancient people describe heaven like visions, and I don't doubt that they had these visions.


NDEs are not proof of life after death; if they were, there would be no scepticism of life after death. I have privately resolved to take NDEs as a literal description of what happens after bodily death, but I don't delude myself I could sway other people to believe so.

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Most people who have had a NDE say they experienced incredible peace and happiness and an unexplainable knowing. So maybe there is something to that. Sounds nice doesn't it? But some people experience bad things. So it seems to me, if NDE's are real, then people can experience both good and bad when they die. Maybe neither good or bad experiences are eternal. They're just experiences.


Of course there are bad NDEs. These are "hell experiences", such as the well-known case of Howard Storm. I believe there is a hell as well as a heaven, and people who have done badly in earthly life go there (not for eternity, though).

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And as far as a God, if there is one, I don't believe in a personal God who has a plan or answers prayer. I don't pray.


I don't pray to change the course of natural cause and effect. Prayer for making it rain, for example, doesn't work. I believe that, from the beginning of creation, God has set up natural laws which are immutable. But there is a different kind of prayer, and that is the spiritual prayer, a prayer for spiritual help from the astral planes. This does not contradict natural law.

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If there's a God, I guess I'd just describe Everything as God. That which has always existed is God. Something like, the energy of the entire universe is God. And when we die we go back into the oneness of it all.


I believe God is a personal being, distinct from His creation. And I disbelieve that we merge into Him after death. I believe we stay individuals and distinct from God. This is my Litany of God-Faith:

God is the Creator of the universe. He is both immanent and transcendent. Between the Creator and the creation a great gulf is fixed, but He pervades all of the creation. He is the All-Wise, All-Holy Father. He is Love. He saves sinners, cleanses the sins of men. He is the Lord of Life and Death. He is the Light of Love that all who die meet. He is the Reviewer of Life. He is the Lord of Heaven and Hell. He is the All-Merciful. May His blessing shower us all.

Quote:

I can't know for sure if there's a God or heaven or not. I'm open to the possibility that there is not. So I'm an Agnostic who's leaning toward Atheism. I may be able to be convinced that there is no afterlife and all NDE's are bogus, but I have not yet looked into what the skeptics have to say about them.
The existence of God I regard as a promise to be fulfilled at a later period - after bodily death. As for the existence of the afterlife, I said before: no scientific evidence, verified or unverified, can be allowed to take precedence over the existence of life after death. If there is really no life after death - if it really is so that my existence stops one day, and that is from my own point of view the demise of the universe - then I might as well commit myself to a lunatic asylum. I have been afraid of final death ever since I was eight years old (when I first learned about death), and belief in the afterlife is the medication for my fear.
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Old 06-23-2003, 06:25 PM   #5
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I am an agnostic... although my interpretation of that is while I don't believe in God, I am open to the possibility of a creator of the universe. At this time, however; I do not have enough information to assertain his purpose for the universe and life.

With that being said... there are things that I would /like/ to believe, and things that I merely have to accept. While I would love for there to be a merciful, loving God that when I die will take me unto his divine kingdom of heaven... but I have to accept the fact that this hope is more than likely fiction.

If there is a creator, and I had to choose a belief system, I would have to say that "God" is more or less an observer of his creation. He created it, he created the laws that govern it, he set them into motion, but then has been observing what happens rather than a participant. I do not believe that God is biased one way or another toward what happens inside the universe. He simply accepts it as a whole. Therefore, I believe that the notions of a loving, peaceful, merciful god are false. Life was created well after the origin of the universe, it was simply a byproduct of the existing laws and energy that were initially created. In believing this, life is capable of all of the things that we see it do: Love, hate, indifference, pleasure, pain, intelligence etc... Why would god choose one over the other, since it was his creation to begin with. None of these things has an effect on God, or even have an effect on the grand scale of the universe, so why would he bother himself with something so trivial?

In theory, god is not of this universe, but rather outside of it. In an area where neither space or time exist. (if you understand theortetical physics as they are today, time is not a constant law, but rather a dimension that can be changed with perception and gravity, yet only exists in the universe, everything outside of the universe would not heed the same laws as the universe, therefore, have no need for even existing) While this answers the question, who created God?, (Since time nor space exist outside of the universe where 'god' exists, a creator of God need not be required because they are not bound by the same laws as the universe, they would just 'be') it does not give any rhyme nor reason of his motives or intentions.

As far as an afterlife goes, I highly doubt it. I really want there to be, but there has been no evidence of such. We (humans, other living organisms) are made up of the same elements and chemical compounds as the rest of the universe, we technically 'exist' before we have life (energy cannot be created nor destroyed), and when we die, we again are nothing but elements, chemical compounds, and energy.

All of this however, is pure speculation. As is the same with all of the religions of the world. You can believe and have as much faith as you want, but you do not 'know' for sure. If you cannot comprehend the entire universe, what 'time' really is, and most of the laws that govern it, what makes you so sure that you know the motives and intentions for its creator? If we knew what the truth of it all was, there would be not point to life. We would either be anxiously anticipating all the glory that is heaven, or would be clinically depressed due to the fact that 'nothing' comes after we die.

The only true insight I can offer is this: The only true success is the living your life the way you want to. You have free will, use it. Don't do something because your boss, your parents, 'God', wants you to. Do it because it feels right, and it's what you want to do. When the day arrives when it is your turn to die, die knowing that you lived each day the way that you felt was right.

I do my best to live this way, because I do not know if there is a God, and if I don't know there is a God then I cannot know his purpose (if any). I'd rather take advantage of what I have now, that I have been given, than what I might get in the future. With this being the case, I love theoretical physics and astronomy. These things make me feel closer to the truth than any old book could.
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