Freethought & Rationalism Archive

alek0 · 04-22-2002, 06:43 PM

On another board, one woman posted the following link:
<a href="http://www.alharamain.org/english/articles/youngmarriage.htm" target="_blank">http://www.alharamain.org/english/articles/youngmarriage.htm</a>

to defend Mohammad's marriage to Aisha. I was absolutely disgusted, 50 year old married to 9 year old, and these women don't see anything wrong with that. Blech.

That board sometimes truly sickens me, when they start talking how covering themselves "liberated" them etc.

Wizardry · 04-22-2002, 07:22 PM

I thought this line was particularly interesting, or hypocritical, depending how you look at it.

Quote:

To have an atheist, agnostic�or anyone else who does not believe in a Divinely revealed basis for morality�criticize something that is "politically incorrect" by today's moral standards comes as no surprise. Such people will always find something to criticize, since they simply have a bone to pick with "religion" in general. All of this "absolute morality" talk gets in the way of them having a good time, so they want to mock it, discredit it and do away with it.

Yes, we atheists are evil bastards, aren't we? All we're concerned with is our own selfish desires like smoking, eating pork and not having sexual relations with small children. Not to mention the "relative morality" which we are spreading among the faithful like a vile disease, condoning abominations like homosexuality and not having sex with children.

Clearly, we should all learn something from the Roman Catholic clergy and great prophets of the world and start raping all the small children we can find. Oh, and while we're over in Afghanistan, we should pick up some virgins.

Peace out.

alek0 · 04-22-2002, 09:39 PM

Arrrggggghhhhh!

See the latest disgusting nonsense which got posted there:

"You basically are trying to call our beloved Prophet (saaws) a pedophile and I wont have it. Aisha (Raby Allahu anha) God be pleased with her, had her menses or else she would not have been able to consumate a marriage, wether she was 9 or 13 or whatever age she is irrelevant she was marriable! Lest you forget she also had a father who agreed and was pleased with her marriage to our Prophet Mohammed (saaws). "

"The Western philosophy of women's role, the home, the family and children is based on the opposite of this. When a girl reaches a certain age - usually seventeen years old - neither her father, her brother nor any of her male relatives are obliged to support her. She has to look for work to support herself, and to save whatever she can to offer to her future husband. If she gets married, she has to help her husband with the expenses of the home and children. When she gets old, if she is still able to earn, she must continue to work to earn a living, even if her children are rich.

No doubt the wise Muslim woman understands the huge difference between the position of the Muslim woman and the position of women in the West. The Muslim woman is honoured, protected, and guaranteed a decent living; the Western woman works hard and is subjected to exhaustion and humiliation, especially when she reaches old age. "

"The Western woman envies the Muslim woman, and wishes that she could have some of the rights, honour, protection and stability that the Muslim woman enjoys. There are many proofs of this, some of which have been quoted above (see p 86 of orig.). Another example is the comment of an Italian student of law at Oxford University, after she had heard something of the rights of women in Islam and how Islam gave women all kinds of respect by sparing her the obligation to earn a living so that she may devote herself to caring for her husband and family. This Italian girl said: "I envy the Muslim woman, and wish that I had been born in your country."303 "

"Throwing women into the battlefield of work, where they must compete with men to take their place or share their positions, when there is no need to do so and the interests of society as a whole do not require it, is indeed a grave mistake. It is a great loss that nations and peoples suffer from at times of decline, tribulation and error. The Muslim woman who is guided by the Qur'an and Sunnah does not accept to be thrown into that battlefield, and refuses to become some cheap commodity that is fought over by the greedy capitalists, or some gaudy doll whose company is enjoyed by immoral so-called men. She rejects, with fierce pride, that false "progress" that calls for women to come out uncovered, almost naked and adorned with make up, to work alongside men in offices. With this wise, balanced, honourable attitude, she is in fact doing a great service to her society and nation, by calling for an end to this ridiculous competition of women with men in the workplace, and the resulting corruption, neglect of the family, and waste of money. "

irishajo · 04-23-2002, 08:57 AM

Quote:

<strong>
"The Western philosophy of women's role, the home, the family and children is based on the opposite of this. When a girl reaches a certain age - usually seventeen years old - neither her father, her brother nor any of her male relatives are obliged to support her. She has to look for work to support herself, and to save whatever she can to offer to her future husband. If she gets married, she has to help her husband with the expenses of the home and children. When she gets old, if she is still able to earn, she must continue to work to earn a living, even if her children are rich."</strong>

My grandmother never worked (in the sense they mean) a day in her life. And if/when I get married, I'll help with the expenses because it's a team effort. I don't need a husband to be a second father. Jesus Christ, this stuff annoys me.

Princess of Peace · 04-23-2002, 10:41 AM

I think Dr. Laura would disagree that Western women are supposed to compete with men almost naked.

A 50 year old man marrying a 9 year old girl? Not even the mormons do it that way! The mormons at least allow their women folk to go to college long enough to pick up an attractive guy who's just come back from mission. So that would make them, what, 19? 20?

But Aisha had her menses? Does that make it right to marry/have sex with a 4th grader, just because she happens to have had a period? I don't think so! A 4th grader! Even LeTourneau didn't stoop that low!

Egoinos · 04-23-2002, 10:55 AM

Okaaay...
How many women here envy Muslim women?
Raise your hands in the air...

irishajo · 04-23-2002, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Egoinos:
<strong>Okaaay...
How many women here envy Muslim women?
Raise your hands in the air...</strong>

Well....I envy the fact that they don't have to be compared to other women during bathing suit season. Give me a caftan, please.

nixon · 04-23-2002, 12:34 PM

I am given to understanding that a lot of muslim countries allow Muslim husbands and/or fathers to perform genital mutilation on young girls so they cannot enjoy sex when they grow up. I read an artical by a lady that had that happen to her in reader digest a few years ago.

I'd like to see how someone could "justify" that.

alek0 · 04-23-2002, 05:16 PM

Aahhh, Nixon, but you see that's not "true Islam". Also, marrying women against their will which is all too common in Islamic countries is not "true Islam".

David Gould · 04-23-2002, 06:21 PM

Not to actually defend the practise or anything but marrying someone is not the same necessarily as having sex with them.

Historically, many children were married (on paper at least) before coming of age.

As an extreme example, in Japan, some marriage contracts for the wealthy were written and signed before the children were even conceived.

Marrying a child is not necessarily pedophillia.

04-22-2002, 06:43 PM	#1
alek0 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 640	Puzzled by moslem women (again!) On another board, one woman posted the following link: <a href="http://www.alharamain.org/english/articles/youngmarriage.htm" target="_blank">http://www.alharamain.org/english/articles/youngmarriage.htm</a> to defend Mohammad's marriage to Aisha. I was absolutely disgusted, 50 year old married to 9 year old, and these women don't see anything wrong with that. Blech. That board sometimes truly sickens me, when they start talking how covering themselves "liberated" them etc.

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04-22-2002, 09:39 PM	#3
alek0 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 640	Arrrggggghhhhh! See the latest disgusting nonsense which got posted there: "You basically are trying to call our beloved Prophet (saaws) a pedophile and I wont have it. Aisha (Raby Allahu anha) God be pleased with her, had her menses or else she would not have been able to consumate a marriage, wether she was 9 or 13 or whatever age she is irrelevant she was marriable! Lest you forget she also had a father who agreed and was pleased with her marriage to our Prophet Mohammed (saaws). " "The Western philosophy of women's role, the home, the family and children is based on the opposite of this. When a girl reaches a certain age - usually seventeen years old - neither her father, her brother nor any of her male relatives are obliged to support her. She has to look for work to support herself, and to save whatever she can to offer to her future husband. If she gets married, she has to help her husband with the expenses of the home and children. When she gets old, if she is still able to earn, she must continue to work to earn a living, even if her children are rich. No doubt the wise Muslim woman understands the huge difference between the position of the Muslim woman and the position of women in the West. The Muslim woman is honoured, protected, and guaranteed a decent living; the Western woman works hard and is subjected to exhaustion and humiliation, especially when she reaches old age. " "The Western woman envies the Muslim woman, and wishes that she could have some of the rights, honour, protection and stability that the Muslim woman enjoys. There are many proofs of this, some of which have been quoted above (see p 86 of orig.). Another example is the comment of an Italian student of law at Oxford University, after she had heard something of the rights of women in Islam and how Islam gave women all kinds of respect by sparing her the obligation to earn a living so that she may devote herself to caring for her husband and family. This Italian girl said: "I envy the Muslim woman, and wish that I had been born in your country."303 " "Throwing women into the battlefield of work, where they must compete with men to take their place or share their positions, when there is no need to do so and the interests of society as a whole do not require it, is indeed a grave mistake. It is a great loss that nations and peoples suffer from at times of decline, tribulation and error. The Muslim woman who is guided by the Qur'an and Sunnah does not accept to be thrown into that battlefield, and refuses to become some cheap commodity that is fought over by the greedy capitalists, or some gaudy doll whose company is enjoyed by immoral so-called men. She rejects, with fierce pride, that false "progress" that calls for women to come out uncovered, almost naked and adorned with make up, to work alongside men in offices. With this wise, balanced, honourable attitude, she is in fact doing a great service to her society and nation, by calling for an end to this ridiculous competition of women with men in the workplace, and the resulting corruption, neglect of the family, and waste of money. "

04-23-2002, 10:41 AM	#5
Princess of Peace Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 109	I think Dr. Laura would disagree that Western women are supposed to compete with men almost naked. A 50 year old man marrying a 9 year old girl? Not even the mormons do it that way! The mormons at least allow their women folk to go to college long enough to pick up an attractive guy who's just come back from mission. So that would make them, what, 19? 20? But Aisha had her menses? Does that make it right to marry/have sex with a 4th grader, just because she happens to have had a period? I don't think so! A 4th grader! Even LeTourneau didn't stoop that low!

04-23-2002, 10:55 AM	#6
Egoinos Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 423	Okaaay... How many women here envy Muslim women? Raise your hands in the air...

04-23-2002, 12:34 PM	#8
nixon Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Valleyview, OH USA Posts: 6,638	I am given to understanding that a lot of muslim countries allow Muslim husbands and/or fathers to perform genital mutilation on young girls so they cannot enjoy sex when they grow up. I read an artical by a lady that had that happen to her in reader digest a few years ago. I'd like to see how someone could "justify" that.

04-23-2002, 05:16 PM	#9
alek0 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 640	Aahhh, Nixon, but you see that's not "true Islam". Also, marrying women against their will which is all too common in Islamic countries is not "true Islam".

04-23-2002, 06:21 PM	#10
David Gould Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Australia Posts: 759	Not to actually defend the practise or anything but marrying someone is not the same necessarily as having sex with them. Historically, many children were married (on paper at least) before coming of age. As an extreme example, in Japan, some marriage contracts for the wealthy were written and signed before the children were even conceived. Marrying a child is not necessarily pedophillia.

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