crownboy

In general, and especially on this website, one can find a ton of information on that points out the flaws and errors of Christanity. However, I've been looking for some similiar works on Islam, and have not been as successful. I've read all the material on this site, but of course it's "a drop in the bucket" compared to the stuff you find on Christanity. Of course there's a reason for that (more Christain affected people like myself come to this site, less critical study of Islam overall), but I'd still like to know if anyone has info. I went to Barnes & Noble and was only able to find two books negative about Islam (both by Ibn Warriq), and all the rest were apologetic works (I've read some, and it's amazing how uncritical the writers are). Can anyone point me to websites, etc. that contain critiques of Islam/the Quaran, or discuss the origins without taking "Mohamed was a prophet", "the Quaran is perfect" as a priori assertions? Thanks.

Jayman

I took an Islamic history course that touched on this topic (although it touched on much more). Read Patricia Crone's <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0691054800/qid=1026172521/sr=1-8/ref=sr_1_8/104-2644246-9044714" target="_blank">book</a> that challenges the traditional story of Islam's rise

[ July 08, 2002: Message edited by: Jayman ]</p>

Sauron

Guillaume has some such comments, always delivered respectfully, that suggest that there may be a more natural explanation for many of Islam's claims. And he draws conclusions about Islam having plagiarized many of its concepts and beliefs directly from Christianity and/or Judaism, but putting a purely Arab spin on it to make it more acceptable. The co-optation of previous pagan Arab holy sites (such as the Kaaba) into Islam is also mentioned.

I also encountered all this in my studies; in fact, my instructor totally incensed the Arab students in the classroom by intimating that the Koran was anything except 100% correct. He was shouted down by them, in fact.

But I'm not aware of any objective work in English that critically examines the historical claims about Islam. There are a lot of Christian and/or Jewish books that do that; but their agenda colors their evaluation and renders it so suspicious as to be worthless.

I'm not saying that such books don't exist; but I guess I have just taken the non-supernatural origins of Islam as a granted, and not bothered to look for books to support that view.

King Arthur

There used to be an "answering-islam" website on the web. I don't know if it's still there or not.

However, maybe this can help:

<a href="http://www.truthnet.org/islam/source.htm" target="_blank">http://www.truthnet.org/islam/source.htm</a>

The Koran borrowed its stories about Jesus from the Christian apocrypha which circulated in that area at the time and not from the books of the Bible.

Dargo

Here's a couple of links with information on Islam.

<a href="http://main.faithfreedom.org/" target="_blank">http://main.faithfreedom.org/</a>

<a href="http://www.secularislam.org/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.secularislam.org/index.html</a>

Sauron

Given that website's take on evolution and/or abortion(available through their links, left side of page) I'd have to seriously doubt their objectivity on the issue. They're unabashedly anti-abortion, pro-creationist. It's a christian site that is attempting to push its own agenda.

A listing of the sub-topics in the Islam section further implicates them:


This website clearly falls into the category that I mentioned earlier: There are a lot of Christian and/or Jewish books that do that; but their agenda colors their evaluation and renders it so suspicious as to be worthless.

King Arthur

This is the second time someone has called me on posting websites that they don't agree with.

Look, just because the owners of a website have radical or fundamentalist views, it does not mean that they can't have relevant information. You simply have to read with a *skeptical* attitude!

If you check some of the claims out (especially under the *Sources* part) you will find that they are true.

For instance, the Koran appears to contain a late apocryphal Christian story from the Infancy Gospel of Thomas.

Just be discerning. Geesh...

wildernesse

I have heard that this website (from my fab school--Go Dawgs) is one of the best about Islam. I'm interested in looking into it more--but it will be a good place to start.

<a href="http://www.arches.uga.edu/~godlas/home.html" target="_blank">Islamic Studies at UGA</a>

--tiba

Sauron

It's not a matter of "dont' agree with". It's a matter of detecting a bias so strong that it flavors the objectivity of the website's content. It's also a matter of observing their appalling lack of information (i.e., missing facts) about the topic.

They failed to do so, in the case of evolution. And in the case of several other of their pages. Logic dictates that their radical slant and incomplete factual basis will also manifest in their "examination" of Islam as well.

Why bother reading at all? The website is obviously slanted and repeats nonsense and factual errors. Why should I spend even one minute of my time reading that site, and trying to compensate for its mistakes?

My time would be better spent reading an information source that didn't exhibit such crass fallacies and evident bias.


Unlikely. But if you'd like to connect the dots here, I'm sure we'd all be interested.

With all the high quality inbformation sites out there, I'm at a loss to understand why anyone would bother with a low-grade source such as this one.

Why spend your time trying to sift through each and every claim, in an attempt to separate the bias and verify the radical claims, when you could spend that same amount of time dealing with a real source?

King Arthur

Connecting the dots:

Koran:
--------
And he shall speak to men in the cradle....And he shall say, Verily I come unto you with a sign from your Lord, for I shall make unto you of clay the figure as it were of a bird; then I will blow thereon and it shall become a bird, by permission of God.' (Surah 3.41-43 )
---------

Infancy Gospel of Thomas:
----------
The child Jesus, when five years of age, was playing on the road by a dirty stream of running water; and having brought it all together into ditches, immediately made it pure and clean; and all this by a single word. Then having moistened some earth, he made of it twelve sparrows. And it was the Sabbath day when he did these things. There were many other children playing with him. Now a Jew, seeing what Jesus did, that he

Was playing on the Sabbath day, forthwith went his way to his father Joseph; Behold, he Said, thy son is at the stream Of dirty water, and having taken up some mud, hath made of it twelve sparrows, and hath thus desecrated the Sabbath. On this Joseph went to the spot~ and cried out:- Why dost thou do these things on the Sabbath day which it is not lawful to do? Whereupon Jesus, clapping his hands at the sparrows, cried aloud to them, - Go off! So they, clucking, flew away. The Jews seeing it, were astonished, and went and told their Rulers what they had seen Jesus do.
--------

There are plenty more of this obvious similarities if you read the work that I posted.

By the way, if you try to be a little more discerning, you would realize that the information presented on that website about Islam is not written by the authors of that website but by a much older author. As a matter of fact, this work can probably be found supported by other websites. Just use a little common sense. If you sift through some of the crap that is posted in the SecWeb library, you can sift through the crap on Islamic and Christian websites.

<a href="http://answering-islam.org.uk/Nehls/Ask/sources.html" target="_blank">http://answering-islam.org.uk/Nehls/Ask/sources.html</a>
<a href="http://www.islamexposed.com/Library/Sources%20of%20Islam/" target="_blank">http://www.islamexposed.com/Library/Sources%20of%20Islam/</a>

This next website says:
"On the Koran's sources, you must read, highly recommended, W. St. Clair Tisdall's book, Sources of Islam, written a century ago."
<a href="http://notendur.centrum.is/~snorrigb/Islamism.htm" target="_blank">http://notendur.centrum.is/~snorrigb/Islamism.htm</a>

These two link to it:
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/ListIslam/" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/ListIslam/</a>
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/lone_wolf_gc/overview.html" target="_blank">http://www.geocities.com/lone_wolf_gc/overview.html</a>

Don't dismiss something out of hand just because you don't agree with the website that hosts it! Good grief! Just use common sense!

[ July 11, 2002: Message edited by: King Arthur ]</p>