Biff the unclean

Oh, I get the point Jack. The average Christian's sense of justice and morality makes them a much better person than the biblical God is. And, admittedly, I do tend to make these exact same types of arguments myself. But they seem to be beyond the grasp of many Christians. Of course infinite punishment for finite offences is the ultimate in injustice. But the point isn't that the completely just God is actually the completely unjust God. The point is that the God is a fictional character. If the woman from the OP had been in a traffic accident and taken to the hospital and then claimed that Superman had saved her she would be thought insane. Yet tdekeyser is reduced, out of politeness I assume, to arguing technicalities. Irishbrutha makes a statement indistinguishable from "all morals come from Superman because he is for truth, justice and the American way. There is nowhere else they could possibly come from." And is told "OK, so it's just your opinion" followed by comments on the morals of the God--but only in the context of the book he exists in and not the real world.

We know that the book is a novel and that whatever the character does is only in the context of the fictional world he exists in. But the believers we are talking to aren't making that important distinction.

I think H L Mencken was feeling the same frustration I am when he said "One horse-laugh is worth a thousand syllogisms."

Starboy

That was your mistake. You fell into the "If your aunt had balls" trap. By arguing from an assumed god, all you had left was to quibble over the nature and intent of god. When it comes to attibuting imaginary actions and intents to an imaginary entity, nobody does it better than a Christian. You would have been better off attacking the evidence that was claimed to support the existence of god. Sometimes though there is no point in arguing at all, since examination of such evidence requires an understanding of scientific experimental methods. Topics that are usually far beyond the capabilities of most believers. When such a thing comes up in polite conversation I let it pass. Now on the other hand if they are look'in for a fight, well that's another matter entirely.

Starboy

Godot

Helen,
while you may be thinking I'm splitting hairs on the subject, there is a HUGE difference between punishment as behaviour modification and negative reinforcement as behaviour modification. Punishment (response) can be disassociated from the action (stimulus), especially if the response is excessively delayed from the stimulus. In the long run, it generally doesn't work. Negative reinforcement is a lack of response (or a markedly different one) to the same stimulus (I think). The latter option "trains" individuals away from causing the unwanted stimulus, thereby averting the inappropriate behaviour.

(Sorry to any psych's if I butchered this up too far)

VonEvilstein

If anyone's been carving (or otherwise writing) anything upon any of my organs, serious malpractice and/or assault lawsuits will follow.
I would want anything interfering with it diong its job (hint - the heart is a pump, and that's all it is!).