Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Principia · 11-26-2002, 07:42 AM

As promised, here is the return of <a href="http://iidb.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=58&t=000943" target="_blank">the thread</a> that documents the pathetic whining and absolute cowardice of IDiots. To start it off, I quote from the Whiner du jour, BiLl DuMbSkI, from onf of the Net's <a href="http://www.arn.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=13;t=000483" target="_blank">repository</a> of ID whining.:

Quote:

Niels Bohr once remarked that if a physicist has a wild idea but doesn't publish it, and it later turns out to be correct, the physicist has no one to blame but himself. This statement by Bohr makes no sense unless in fact a physicist could definitely publish a wild idea in some reasonable journal in the prewar period. Certainly he could publish in Zeitschrift fuer Physik, which would (at the time) publish any paper submitted by a member of the German Physical Society. Heisenberg published his "wild" idea on the Uncertainty Principle there.

The verdict is still not in with Chris Langan's CTMU, but it was clear to me and the editors at PCID that Chris had thought deeply about some hard problems. What's more, it was clear that Chris was largely self-taught and working in isolation over many years. ISCID therefore wanted to provide a forum for Chris to disseminate his work, gain feedback, and bring his ideas into the conversational mainstream. Perhaps it will turn out to be not only a wild idea but also a misguided idea (I don't think so). But at least PCID is providing a forum for free inquiry that is blocked by most of the mainstream journals.

As for PCID losing credibility in your eyes for publishing Chris Langan's work, that really doesn't bother me because I frankly doubt that it ever had any credibility in your eyes to start with. Nor for that matter do I expect we could ever gain credibility in your eyes except by capitulating to your views, which is not going to happen.

As for being able to pull a "Sokal" with ISCID, here's the deal. If within one of the next four issues of PCID we publish a "bullshit" article by you of the sort that Sokal published in Social Text, I'll personally write you a check for $1000. Most likely you'll need to use a pseudonym or submit it through one of your colleagues. It just needs to be clear that it really was your work. Good luck.

Methinks the gentleman doth protest too much. But, then again, it is a clear sign that PCID is once again not receiving its quota of articles.

EDIT: BTW, notice the purported goal of PCID:

Quote:

ISCID therefore wanted to provide a forum for Chris to disseminate his work, gain feedback, and bring his ideas into the conversational mainstream.

Does anyone seriously believe that a) ISCID is a proper forum to provide any feedback that is of substance, and b) Superbrain is a person open to feedback from the 'conversational mainstream?' He might as well be dealing with terrorists.

EDIT2: To include link to previous "ID whining thread."

[ November 26, 2002: Message edited by: Principia ]

KC · 11-26-2002, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Does anyone seriously believe that a) ISCID is a proper forum to provide any feedback that is of substance, and b) Superbrain is a person open to feedback from the 'conversational mainstream?' He might as well be dealing with terrorists.

As long as the feedback is sycophantic adulation, it's ok. As soon as anything critical is brought up, the critic is assumed to be too stupid to understand.

Cheers,

KC

theyeti · 11-26-2002, 08:40 AM

Exactly. Every sincere attempt at asking for clarification or explanation of the CTMU over at ARN has met with patronizing put-downs and dismissal. Langan contends that it would be a waste of time to bother explaining it. One has to wonder just what the hell he's doing there, aside from blowing smoke.

Excuse me, I've got a thousand bucks to win...

theyeti

KC · 11-26-2002, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by theyeti:
Exactly. Every sincere attempt at asking for clarification or explanation of the CTMU over at ARN has met with patronizing put-downs and dismissal. Langan contends that it would be a waste of time to bother explaining it. One has to wonder just what the hell he's doing there, aside from blowing smoke.

Excuse me, I've got a thousand bucks to win...

theyeti

What do you expect, from an ego that generates <a href="http://www.megafoundation.org/Ubiquity/LondonTelegraph.html" target="_blank">this</a> :

Quote:

JL: Finally, do you feel that the most significant part of your life is still to come? Do you (big question) expect eventually to receive the same recognition as say, Einstein or Mozart - names I have seen you compared with in terms of intelligence.

CL: Whether I receive the same recognition as these geniuses is almost beside the point. The real question is, can I perform on their level? The fact is that I already have, at least in my own fields of intellectual endeavor.

Cheers,

KC

ripdog · 11-26-2002, 09:53 AM

The ID "debate" is what got the ball rolling for me and is the reason I'm reading this post today. A few months ago I was channel surfing and came across an apparent scientific debate. On the surface it seemed legitimate. The debate quickly degenerated into the dismissal of several Biology textbooks, including the one on my bookshelf. As my irritation with the show began to reach new highs, the camera angle widened to include Pat Robertson in all of his idiotic glory. Man!! Talk about adding insult to injury! I felt like I�d been suckered. I sat there and reflected on the past few minutes and came to a disheartening conclusion. The world is full of idiots who embrace this nonsense, and I�m a minority. What a depressing realization. The leader of the free world believes these guys, eeek. Maybe depressed and scared is a better description. Weeks later I got to watch The 700 Club one morning as my good buddy Pat gave us the reasons that God made the earth as he did. Mashed potatoes and gravy were analogous to the creation of lakes and oceans. According to Pat, lakes are made when God uses his giant spoon to make a crater in his mound of mashed potatoes. If he doesn�t make a crater, well then, it obviously runs down the side and pools on the plate. This is how rivers and oceans are formed. I don�t know whether I should laugh at this or be scared that moron�s of this caliber are successfully reaching audiences that will readily embrace this nonsense.

Gregg · 11-26-2002, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ripdog:
The ID "debate" is what got the ball rolling for me and is the reason I'm reading this post today. A few months ago I was channel surfing and came across an apparent scientific debate. On the surface it seemed legitimate. The debate quickly degenerated into the dismissal of several Biology textbooks, including the one on my bookshelf. As my irritation with the show began to reach new highs, the camera angle widened to include Pat Robertson in all of his idiotic glory. Man!! Talk about adding insult to injury! I felt like I�d been suckered. I sat there and reflected on the past few minutes and came to a disheartening conclusion. The world is full of idiots who embrace this nonsense, and I�m a minority. What a depressing realization. The leader of the free world believes these guys, eeek. Maybe depressed and scared is a better description. Weeks later I got to watch The 700 Club one morning as my good buddy Pat gave us the reasons that God made the earth as he did. Mashed potatoes and gravy were analogous to the creation of lakes and oceans. According to Pat, lakes are made when God uses his giant spoon to make a crater in his mound of mashed potatoes. If he doesn�t make a crater, well then, it obviously runs down the side and pools on the plate. This is how rivers and oceans are formed. I don�t know whether I should laugh at this or be scared that moron�s of this caliber are successfully reaching audiences that will readily embrace this nonsense.

I think it all started this way:

After science developed in the West, people loved it and embraced it because it brought practical results--it actually healed their illnesses and made their lives easier. They were able to adjust their religious beliefs to be more compatible with scientific knowledge (after all, the scientists themselves said their work was revealing more of the glory of God's creation).

Then along came geologists talking about a very old Earth, and worse yet, here came the paleontologists and evolutionists to REALLY upset the biblical view of things.

For a while, it appeared that progressive Christians were adjusting to this new scientific worldview, looking at their faith in new ways and trying to break it out of Scripture. But then the fundamentalists arose and became increasingly influential.

In the 50's and 60's, science and rational thought enjoyed a rebirth as we competed with the Russians to get to the Moon. But science had also brought the threat of nuclear holocaust and chemical and biological warfare. Modern conveniences such as TV were altering society and culture in ways many people didn't like. Industrialization was polluting air, land, and water. Modern medicine was saving lives but also creating more and more moral dilemmas. So even as science was enjoying a rennaissance, people were beginning to get suspicious of it again.

So right now we are at a point where we have an extremely schizophrenic, relationship with science. It doesn't help that so many of us take advantage of the products of science but have absolutely no idea how they work.

But I still have hope. The fact remains: Science gets results. Heck, did you see that story where the Bush administration is encouraging development of fusion power? They may even try to get an internationally-funded particle accelerator built.

Gregg

scigirl · 11-26-2002, 12:15 PM

ripdog,

Welcome to infidels - the 700 club scares me too.

Gregg, I liked that explanation, especially the comment that "we have an extremely schizophrenic relationship with science." (Maybe we should prescribe the fundies with some haldol!

)

scigirl

KC · 11-26-2002, 01:16 PM

Looks like <a href="http://www.arn.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=13;t=000483" target="_blank">charlie d struck a nerve</a> over at ARN

Funny how Langan keeps complaining about ID critics posting under pseudonyms, but doesn't criticize Mike Gene for doing the same thing.

Cheers,

KC

[ November 26, 2002: Message edited by: KCdgw ]

faded_Glory · 11-26-2002, 01:26 PM

ARN has become the Chris Langan Masturbation Society with Jazzraptor (Moderator 4) as the chief wanker. It has only taken them a few weeks to degenerate from moderately entertaining to excrutiatingly boring. They have banned nearly all dissenting voices, and I predict charlie d will be next. The place is a waste of bandwidth.

fG (otherwise quite content

)

RufusAtticus · 11-26-2002, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by theyeti:
Excuse me, I've got a thousand bucks to win...

We should all collaborate and submit a paper to ISCID, under some pseudonym. I guess we should start a thread in the private forum.

[ November 26, 2002: Message edited by: RufusAtticus ]

11-26-2002, 01:16 PM	#8
KC Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Narcisco, RRR Posts: 527	Looks like <a href="http://www.arn.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=13;t=000483" target="_blank">charlie d struck a nerve</a> over at ARN Funny how Langan keeps complaining about ID critics posting under pseudonyms, but doesn't criticize Mike Gene for doing the same thing. Cheers, KC [ November 26, 2002: Message edited by: KCdgw ]</p>

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

11-26-2002, 08:40 AM	#3
theyeti Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Denver, CO, USA Posts: 9,747	Exactly. Every sincere attempt at asking for clarification or explanation of the CTMU over at ARN has met with patronizing put-downs and dismissal. Langan contends that it would be a waste of time to bother explaining it. One has to wonder just what the hell he's doing there, aside from blowing smoke. Excuse me, I've got a thousand bucks to win... theyeti

11-26-2002, 09:53 AM	#5
ripdog Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 5	The ID "debate" is what got the ball rolling for me and is the reason I'm reading this post today. A few months ago I was channel surfing and came across an apparent scientific debate. On the surface it seemed legitimate. The debate quickly degenerated into the dismissal of several Biology textbooks, including the one on my bookshelf. As my irritation with the show began to reach new highs, the camera angle widened to include Pat Robertson in all of his idiotic glory. Man!! Talk about adding insult to injury! I felt like I�d been suckered. I sat there and reflected on the past few minutes and came to a disheartening conclusion. The world is full of idiots who embrace this nonsense, and I�m a minority. What a depressing realization. The leader of the free world believes these guys, eeek. Maybe depressed and scared is a better description. Weeks later I got to watch The 700 Club one morning as my good buddy Pat gave us the reasons that God made the earth as he did. Mashed potatoes and gravy were analogous to the creation of lakes and oceans. According to Pat, lakes are made when God uses his giant spoon to make a crater in his mound of mashed potatoes. If he doesn�t make a crater, well then, it obviously runs down the side and pools on the plate. This is how rivers and oceans are formed. I don�t know whether I should laugh at this or be scared that moron�s of this caliber are successfully reaching audiences that will readily embrace this nonsense.

11-26-2002, 12:15 PM	#7
scigirl Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Seattle Posts: 4,261	ripdog, Welcome to infidels - the 700 club scares me too. Gregg, I liked that explanation, especially the comment that "we have an extremely schizophrenic relationship with science." (Maybe we should prescribe the fundies with some haldol! ) scigirl

11-26-2002, 01:26 PM	#9
faded_Glory Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Cairo, Egypt Posts: 1,128	ARN has become the Chris Langan Masturbation Society with Jazzraptor (Moderator 4) as the chief wanker. It has only taken them a few weeks to degenerate from moderately entertaining to excrutiatingly boring. They have banned nearly all dissenting voices, and I predict charlie d will be next. The place is a waste of bandwidth. fG (otherwise quite content )

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.