MOJO-JOJO

Hey buttercup, you really sound like a nice person, and I don't want to be hard on you because I was once a strong believer and apologist that spent most of my free time amongst people such as yourself. As you know, the Bible implores us to do this, because it is the most successful method for perpetuating the Christian philosophy and myth from generation to generation (ie; cut out the contrarian world and its philosophies). It is also the surest way to elevate it to reality. No one wants to be chastised and shunned by their community of friends and family, regardless of the evidence against what they believe.

Anyway, I just read this book review here at the web, and it made me think of you and your posts. You may want to consider getting a copy to read and share your opinions with us.

<a href="http://www.secweb.org/asset.asp?AssetID=154" target="_blank">Book of the Month</a>

Being as you are a student....I am assuming you are not afraid to learn new things or examine a different view of the world??

[ December 04, 2001: Message edited by: MOJO-JOJO ]</p>

Viti

Bumping this as I really want an answer of Lone Wolf's questions. Anxios to see what the mysterious outside source came up with

Lone Wolf

"Why do you build me up (build me up) Buttercup, baby
Just to let me down (let me down) and mess me around
And then worst of all (worst of all) you never call, baby
When you say you will (say you will) but I love you still
I need you (I need you) more than anyone, darlin'
You know that I have from the start
So build me up (build me up) Buttercup, don't break my heart"

buttercup

I am so sorry that it took me so long to type up this response, and I know I sound redundant throughout it, but please bear with me. I am only a student and am very young in my faith.

"You shall not murder"?

Genesis 7:20-23 - Nearly all life, including pregnant women, innocent children, and animals sentenced to death by means of catastrophic flood.
~ This happened because the people had sinned and commited evils. God's heart was grevied and in pain because of this, but Noah found favor with him and because of this, he and his family lived.

Exodus 9:8-11,25 - Tortured the Egyptians with disease because a pharaoh refused to let the Israelites leave.
~ A little tiny thing called sin. The Egyptians were given many many chances to let the Israelites go, and pharaoh refused. Because of this Gods judgement came upon them.


Exodus 12:29-30 - Passover execution of Egyptian babies.
~Like above- God's judgement.

Deuteronomy 7:1-2 - Extermination of men, women, and children of seven nations (then steal their land).
~ The Israelites were Gods chosen people. And it was also a war.

II Samuel 12:13-18 - As punishment for David's adultery with Bathsheba, kill David's baby.
~ Because David sinned with Bathsheba, his son was killed as a result of that sin.

Romans 3:24-25 - Torture and murder of his own son.
~ Jesus is the perfect sacrifice. He was sacrificed so that others might live. Jesus rose from the dead- don't forget that. He rose to conquer death.

I Samuel 15:3 - "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass."
~ Israelites were Gods chosen people, and this war was given to them. There is a time for mercy, and a time for judgement.

Hosea 13:16 - "Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."
~Notice the "for she hath rebelled against her God". She rebelled against God, and His judgement came down on her.

Deuteronomy 32:23-25 - "I will spend mine arrows upon them. . . . The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling also with the man of gray hairs."
~They sinned and angered God, and his judgement was brought on them.

In other words, it's ok for the big guy to be a murdering psychopath, but not for us lab rats?

psychopath: "a mentally ill or unstable person "
God is not mentally ill or unstable. So therefore he isn't a psychopath.

buttercup

I am not sure about the "mentally-ill-too-young-get-out-of-hell-free" clause, but you wouldnt be killed in heaven.

And I dont remember who asked, but it was something like, "So if I steal a pack of gum I'm going to hell?" And my response is its not the theft that puts you in hell, though it doesnt help. The major sin that puts you in hell is ignoring God and Jesus Christ and saying that they dont exist, etc.

buttercup

JohnClay:

I think that since its in the Bible, it is right. Yes, women should be in submission.

Lone Wolf

Thanks for the reply, Buttercup. Let's see...

So, every man, woman, child, and animal had "sinned"? Or just certain ones - yet all were sentenced to death? Why? Was it just too big a chore to sort them all out? And if this god guy is so perfect, why did his creations have so many flaws... so many that they all had to be exterminated so he could start over?

I know the story, but how can anyone justify torturing all Egyptians for the ideology of one Pharaoh, especially when an all-powerful being would have so many other options?

And you have no problem worshipping a god who executes babies? Let's also not forget the original topic, Buttercup - that what is considered a "sin" is the very stuff that is apparently ok for god to get away with.

His "chosen people"? What about the slaughtered folks? Were they not god's creations too? And if this is how he operates, why isn't everyone on the West Bank being exterminated right now?

Explain to me how this is just? And by this logic all adultery today should be punished by killing the offender's children, right? Or would that be a "sin"?

So, god impregnates an unmarried virgin (sin), then kills his own son (or allows it to happen - still a sin), and as I said before... it's ok for god to do these wacky things (even though he's all-powerful and can choose easier ways to do things) - yet for us they're "sins"? He sounds like a pretty lousy role model / leader to me.

Again with the chosen ones, huh? Sorry, Buttercup, but slaughtering infants and camels as some sort of justice in god's name is demented. It's ok to murder at god's hand, but wrong for us?

And this judgement includes "infants dashed in pieces" and "ripped up women with child"? Again we have unjustified murder.

Then if someone pisses me off, I can go out and destroy virgins and old men? Or is this behavior reserved just for the big guy? What? That would be a "sin"? Hmmm... that's why I stated in my first post that he can't even follow his own rules.

Oh, I think the evidence is overwhelming in favor of being an unstable lunatic. Tell me this, if any of us earthbound folks pulled even one of the stunts listed above, would you think there was anything sane going on?

I understand what you're trying to say, Buttercup, in that you're attempting to justify your god's actions. However - the fact remains that these are horrible acts, sins even. Actually, you've admitted that he commited these "sins"... and thus my original statement about god, sin, and the double standard that remains...

Mad Kally

buttercup,
Please do me a favor and copy and paste all your wonderful bible information into the "Rants, Raves, Preaching etc." forum.

Maybe you can save some of us..

Queen of Swords

Seconded! Please come to the RRP forum, buttercup; we will give you a very warm welcome there.

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by buttercup:
<strong>JohnClay:

I think that since its in the Bible, it is right. Yes, women should be in submission.</strong>

But since you're still here, buttercup, in light of the above statement, what should a woman do in a marriage where her husband abuses her? If he wants her to stay in the marriage, should she submit to his wishes and remain there?

If your answer to that question is "no", could you describe what kind of abuse justifies a woman leaving her husband? How bad does it have to be before you can go against the bible? Or should you obey the bible and prepare to die?