Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Ramen · 11-04-2002, 09:44 PM

I created the topic "Does Time Exist" and it was moved over to "Science & Skepticism". So it is only being discussed in relation to science and the material universe.

I only know a little about Zen and would appreciate some perspective on the Buddhist concept of time's existence or non-existence in ultimate reality.

Steve K · 11-04-2002, 11:00 PM

I certainly am not claiming to speak for Buddhism or all Buddhists here. Only for myself.

That said, I see time as being now: the present moment. The past is a memory, often foggy and inaccurate. The future is a dream, the way we wish or fear things will turn out.

Now is just a snapshot of the world. But the world is changing, and that is the meaning of time. If the world didn't change, obviously there would be no time.

If you're looking for a more metaphysical approach, I would suggestion that time, rather than being a traversable dimension, is simply a measurement of the rate of change.

- Steve

Eudaimonist · 11-05-2002, 04:08 PM

As I understand Buddhism, this reality ~is~ ultimate reality, not some other reality. Time would exist exactly as it does for us, though one might be focusing more on the "now".

Answerer · 11-05-2002, 04:56 PM

Well, the 'past' had been the 'present', the 'present' had been the 'future' and the 'future' will become the 'past'. The faster you let go these concepts(off your mind), the faster you will awaken.

Ramen · 11-05-2002, 09:35 PM

The "goal" in Buddhism is to become enlightened, so I would think that an enlightened state is one in which you would experience ultimate reality as defined by Buddhism. The following quote is from James H. Austin, M.D., who is a Zennist and a neurologist.

Quote:

From the book Zen and the Brain:

Each human lifetime, like an airplane flight, takes off on a baby's birth date, soars for a while, then makes a final approach for the inevitable landing of some kind. Birth and death. One more pair of opposites. They occupy either end of an autobiographical yardstick. No need for either concept in kensho [enlightenment]. It lacks this yardstick, carries no implication of birth or death. Therefore, in a manner of speaking, it does remain "unborn"... and its timelessness recedes at both ends into the open-endedness of infinity. As a result, the field of consciousness, in kensho, shorn of I and all its time cues, has the sense that there is in fact, no passage of time at all, that all time is an illusion.

Answerer · 11-06-2002, 02:57 AM

Actually, it will be even better if you just discard the word 'ultimate reality' out of your mind. As a saying goes, 'To be ordinary is the way to enlightenment'.

MOJO-JOJO · 11-06-2002, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Answerer:
<strong>Well, the 'past' had been the 'present', the 'present' had been the 'future' and the 'future' will become the 'past'. The faster you let go these concepts(off your mind), the faster you will awaken.</strong>

And if you don't skeedaddle fast enough from the 'present' to the 'future', those little Langoliers with the buzz-saw teeth will have you for dinner!

Answerer · 11-06-2002, 04:42 PM

I bet Stephen King might be the first person to have seen Langoliers before if there are any.

Ramen · 11-06-2002, 07:49 PM

Answerer,

Yes, reality is reality. But if I only said "reality" instead of "ultimate reality", there would be those who would mistake my intended definition of "reality" for the physical world/universe.

Quote:

posted by Answerer:

'To be ordinary is the way to enlightenment'.

Do you know anyone who claims to be enlightened? I'm not trying to be a smart-arse here, I'd seriously like to know.

Answerer · 11-06-2002, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by peeramid:
<strong>Answerer,

Do you know anyone who claims to be enlightened? I'm not trying to be a smart-arse here, I'd seriously like to know.</strong>

Nope. Even if I meet one(who claims that he is enlightened), I will most likely distrust his words because a true awakened person will never think of himself as enlightened.

11-04-2002, 09:44 PM	#1
Ramen Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Uppa U.S. Posts: 1,153	Buddhist Perspective on the Existence or Non-Existence of Time in Ultimate Reality I created the topic "Does Time Exist" and it was moved over to "Science & Skepticism". So it is only being discussed in relation to science and the material universe. I only know a little about Zen and would appreciate some perspective on the Buddhist concept of time's existence or non-existence in ultimate reality.

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11-04-2002, 11:00 PM	#2
Steve K Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Corvallis, OR USA Posts: 64	I certainly am not claiming to speak for Buddhism or all Buddhists here. Only for myself. That said, I see time as being now: the present moment. The past is a memory, often foggy and inaccurate. The future is a dream, the way we wish or fear things will turn out. Now is just a snapshot of the world. But the world is changing, and that is the meaning of time. If the world didn't change, obviously there would be no time. If you're looking for a more metaphysical approach, I would suggestion that time, rather than being a traversable dimension, is simply a measurement of the rate of change. - Steve

11-05-2002, 04:08 PM	#3
Eudaimonist Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Sundsvall, Sweden Posts: 3,159	As I understand Buddhism, this reality ~is~ ultimate reality, not some other reality. Time would exist exactly as it does for us, though one might be focusing more on the "now".

11-05-2002, 04:56 PM	#4
Answerer Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 3,956	Well, the 'past' had been the 'present', the 'present' had been the 'future' and the 'future' will become the 'past'. The faster you let go these concepts(off your mind), the faster you will awaken.

11-06-2002, 02:57 AM	#6
Answerer Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 3,956	Actually, it will be even better if you just discard the word 'ultimate reality' out of your mind. As a saying goes, 'To be ordinary is the way to enlightenment'.

11-06-2002, 04:42 PM	#8
Answerer Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 3,956	I bet Stephen King might be the first person to have seen Langoliers before if there are any.

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