keyser_soze

I suspect it's something related to the anus....

Wayne Delia

Wow! Did your HMO approve that situation? That's gotta jack up the price of the procedure. Suppose the surgeon was not Christian? How is the chain of command established in that case? Assume, for the moment, a situation of a non-Christian surgeon operating on a believer such as yourself. Would God use the surgeon as a puppet to ensure the successful surgery you hope for - thus removing the surgeon's free will to potentially screw up your operation? Or in case of an emergency situation arising during surgery, is the non-Christian surgeon supposed to wait and listen for orders from the God of some religion other than his? Would a Christian surgeon be expected to wait for inspiration from Allah, or expect to be controlled by Allah, if she was operating on a Muslim patient? But perhaps your surgeon is Christian after all. He couldn't be a very strong Christian, if he relies on medical surgical procedures and instruments when Mark 16:17-18 clearly states Jesus promises that Christians would have the power to heal any illness simply by laying on of hands. All you would need is a Christian to heal you much more cheaply and less intrusively. Finally, how would you account for any number of failed procedures by Christian surgeons operating on Christian patients? Successful ones get credited to God, no doubt, but the unsuccessful ones never seem to be blamed on God. Instead, God gets credit for some mysterious, unknown higher purpose for allowing the operation to fail.You failed to explain why that is the case. The only way it could be the case is if what God is all about amounts to "God doesn't mean what the Bible reports Him as saying." In Mark 16:17-18, Jesus is attributed to have said "And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well." Those are supposed to be the distinguishing characteristics of believers, to demonstrate to nonbelievers the power of their faith. If Jesus doesn't mean what He promised, then either He is a liar or else the Bible doesn't accurately portray what He meant.That much is obvious: if I ever decided to place my faith in a God, I would prefer either to follow one which is not a liar, or one who is described in a much more reliable and trustworthy holy book.Go right ahead! I'm not surprised, because it's probably much easier than if you reflected either on why Jesus lied to you, or why you don't have as much faith in Jesus as you seem to think we should have.Good luck! But you're still on the hook for why you're ignoring Mark 16:17-18 in favor of the scientific and medical procedures of fallible humans instead of trusting what Jesus promised you. Perhaps that passage is one of the more than 31,000 inconsistencies you've found in the Bible.

WMD

Wayne Delia

Truth be told - yes, I was just funnin'. I have yet to meet a Christian who has the courage to even attempt those abilities Jesus promised in Mark 16:17-18, much less successfully carry them out. This is not a case of "tempting the Lord thy God" since the abilities are supposed to accompany those who believe, to distinguish them as Christians by demonstrating the power of their faith.

So, as a personal answer to the common question of "What would it take to prove the existence of God to you?" I typically respond that I'd like to see a demonstration of the abilities Jesus promised in Mark 16:17-18, specifically a Christian curing a full-blown case of AIDS with no medical assistance at all (verified by three different independent physicians, each of different religious faiths); handling a mature, venomous rattlesnake by the tail for 30 minutes (the potency of the venom verified in advance by an independent, certified herpetologist), and drinking a pint of concentrated hydrosulfuric acid with a measured pH of less than 1 with no ill effects whatsoever. (Mark 16:18 does not claim that believers will merely survive drinking deadly poison, but that they will not be affected at all.) I would accept successful demonstration of these abilities as evidence that the Christian God exists and that the Bible is true, at least in some places where I would most expect it to be false. I sure as hell wouldn't worship the bastard, because He's got a lot of 'splainin' to do about a lot of behavior problems of His in the Old Testament.

Instead of any attempts to demonstrate the abilities, we are immediately presented with a variety of excuses why these tests should not be carried out: "Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God," "God is not a puppet to perform on command," "We won't show you the demonstration because you wouldn't believe anyway," and so forth, including "You don't have the right 'heart condition'," which may sound familiar to readers of this thread. What I conclude is that the believers, such as Jorge, understand and accept that this promise of Jesus's doesn't actually work, so they make the wise and prudent decision to get competent medical attention in cases like these - completely oblivious to their blatant hypocrisy.

So, as one of the relatively few opportunities to objectively demonstrate God's existence and power, even as Jesus promised it could be done, virtually all Christians I've known won't even attempt the abilities, much less successfully demonstrate them. (Those who do attempt them are relegated to the "lunatic fringe" of Christianity, i.e. the snake-handlers, who try to build up a gradual tolerance to venom, and blame the victims of having insufficient faith if the victims die.) I am not impressed, as usual.

WMD

Wayne Delia

Are you suggesting a head-ectomy?

WMD

Wayne Delia

That's strange. It would take one relatively short post to mention an alleged contradiction, along with a brief explanation of why it isn't an actual contradiction. You're not well enough to create that post.

But you are well enough to make SEVEN posts thanking people for their well-wishes for your upcoming medical procedure.

Is communicating spiritual wisdom something like the messages in Charlotte's Web, in which the message-giver gets unusually tired from conveying the message?

WMD

Corgan Sow

Wow...five pages.

This would make a good archive in WinAce's Fundies say the darndiest things

Soul Invictus

Vintage rebut! Classic response

JCS

Just a slight murmur, but I'm better now and my spirits are up and my attitude is ship shape.


Oh I believe attitude has everything to do with it. If your attitude is such that you are gullable, than the tripe contained in that dumb book will be right up your alley.

Speaking of feeble minds, first you have to believe it is true for it to be true?

You could but you didn't so why bring it up?

Well....no. The proof of my position actually, is the lack of proof for your position.

You base your life view on a book that you admit contains over 31,000 discrepancies? What the fuck am I missing here?

No problem, as I really don't see a need for poking fun at the beliefs of bronze age goat herders anyway.


Oh I think I got it. In fact you if you are smart enough to understand my response you will simply say to yourself, "I am a clueless dolt that in all actuality have discussed nothing."


DUH!! Not when you have gone to such lengths to rig the bet.

JCS

Darwin26

... how some can fall for such jibberish...
perhaps if they layed their condesending mitts on themselves to rid themselves of this "gawd" kick they could have a "gawd'less selfectomy... FREE yourself slave. FREE yourself and step into the light. There is no rapture, there is no messiah... just the community of man and your actions of compassion.

smugg

Aw, have a little pity, guys. Jorge is just scared of dying and this is the best way he knows to confince himself he doesn't have to.

As long as he's not hurting anyone I think it's adorable.