Jorge

This post is directed at any person here that feels that this subject (Bible "discrepancies and errors") is a 'Waterloo' for Christianity. (BTW, I was directed to this forum by the Moderator).

Tell me, exactly how many years of serious, dedicated study do you have under your belt on the subject of Bible "discrepancies and errors"? Ten years? Twenty? Fifty? How many times have you read the Bible cover-to-cover? Ten? Twenty? Fifty?

What's that you say? None? One?

And if you ever did read it, with what kind of 'heart condition' did you read it? What was your spiritual and intellectual 'attitude'?

'It only takes one reading and the attitude has nothing to do with it' - is this what you're thinking? If so, you are completely wrong.

You must be willing to grant that if the Bible is what many believe it to be (I said IF) then it represents a message from a Being with an IQ that is off the charts (limitless, actually). So, you wouldn't really be expecting to understand this message - completely and without errors in perception/comprehension on your part - with your relatively feeble mind, would you?

I could cite you scores of names of Bible scholars that have studied this topic for a major portion of their lives. Do you think that you know something on this subject that, combined, they don't? If so, pray tell what that would be.

One of you linked to this S.A.L. list of over one-thousand Bible discrepancies/errors. Those of you so inclined are undoubtedly 'impressed' with this very long list and take it as "proof" of your position. You probably consider the 'case closed'.

I just laughed! I'm not even close to what one would consider a scholar in this field and I'm aware of over 31,000 (!!) "discrepancies". BTW, this knowledge (and the subsequent studies) has served to strengthen my faith, not weaken it.

Hence, I'm afraid that those of you mounting the 'Bible-error-horse' are, relatively speaking, in pre-Kindergarden insofar as this topic is concerned. There's no nice way to put it, you are clueless as to the extent of this topic and the studies that are behind it.

Frankly, those of you smart enough to have understood what I've posted here should simply say to yourself, "I'm not discussing this subject any further until I find out what the heck this is all about."

Anybody want to place a bet on what the actual reaction will be?

Jorge

AndresDeLaHoz

The actual reaction will probably be less than JOLLY, seeing as you've basically started a thread saying many of the people here are ignorant and haven't actually read the Bible. Call me crazy, but if you have read this forum once, you'd know that's not the case.

Selsaral

I almost hope no one bothers responding to your post. These forums are supposed to be a place where good philosophical discussions can take place. But your post is so insulting and arrogant that any real discussion is unlikely to occur. The general spirit of the forums is 'don't be a jerk' and you just flunked with exceptional ease. If your desire was to generate a real discussion, you have failed miserably. If your desire was to immediately destroy any respect any poster might have for you with your first post, you have gotten off to a grand start.

smugg

About ten.

I don't count. I've read the Bible cover to cover at least twice and I revisit certain books numerous times.

Like AndresDeLaHoz, I would recommend looking around and getting a good feel for the people to whom you speak before making assumptions. While I don't doubt that there are some who visit this forum who haven't or don't read it as thoroughly as you, it's certainly not true of many here.

Ahh, here's the real crux (no pun intended...). You know, if you read the Bagavad Gita with the 'right' attitude it wouldn't be hard to accept Brahma as the source of all things. It works for any story. If, however, the 'inspired word of God' can't stand up to a little sceptical scrutiny He can't be all that reliable, don't you think?

nope

If you say so.

So what? If God were a little smarter, maybe He could get His 'perfect' message across in a way that is understandable. Or maybe He should have given His creations enough intelligence to understand Him...

Sure, but could you find two that come away with the same message?

Combined? Is this including all the scholars who understand the Bible's metaphorical nature or do we exclude those scholars who make you uncomfortable? For example, I have huge advantages over Augustine -- I've read about the life of Buddha and can see how his story influenced the Gospels six-hundred years later. Thanks to Copernicus, Newton, Einstein, and others, I have a much better understanding of the nature of matter, energy, and stellar movement. The list is huge.

Your pride in the Bible's inconsistencies is cute, but hardly a refutation.

Speaking of Kindergarten, your schoolyard boasting is misplaced here. That may work on your morning ride on the short bus, but it's just an empty claim on this board.

Yes. I bet the incredulity at your utter lack of humility will cause people to wonder why bother worshiping Jesus if even Christians don't care about His message!

CX

Greetings Jorge,

Welcome to II and B,C&H. Typically this forum is for the intellectual discussion of ideas and issues related to biblical criticism and/or history. As such the onus on the OP is to present a question or issue for discussion. At present your OP seems more of a diatribe based on a particular confessional stance. If you would be so kind, could you clarify what it is you wish to discuss and perhaps tone down your rhetoric?

Thanks,

CX - Moderator B,C&H

Jorge

I'm really sorry - you'll have to pardon me for considering the obvious. Is this not the "Infidels Website"? Therefore, the 'obvious' is that most of the posters here belong to the anti-Christian camp (or, more generally, to the atheist/agnostic camp).

Please excuse me, I must've taken a wrong turn and didn't realize I was actually in the Christian Apologetics Website. Oops!

BTW, and just in case, if you're thinking that being an 'infidel' doesn't preclude a person from having a good understanding and acceptance of God's word then you gravely mistaken. Ever hear of the term 'mutually exclusive'?

Jorge

Jorge

Originally posted by Selsaral

I almost hope no one bothers responding to your post.

Too late, you just did!

These forums are supposed to be a place where good philosophical discussions can take place.

So, go ahead and deliver some of that "good philosophical discussion".

But your post is so insulting and arrogant that any real discussion is unlikely to occur.

No, maybe my post is so 'to the point' that you are stopped dead in your tracks. Thus, all you have left is ad hominem - the catch-all strategy (i.e., if you can't beat 'em, toss dirt on 'em!).

The general spirit of the forums is 'don't be a jerk' and you just flunked with exceptional ease.

The 'jerk' characterization is duly noted. Could we now see some of that "good philosophical discussion"?

If your desire was to generate a real discussion, you have failed miserably.

Why, because I've left you no hole to slither through?

If your desire was to immediately destroy any respect any poster might have for you with your first post, you have gotten off to a grand start.

Again, duly noted. Can we now, please, see some of that "good philosophical discussion"?

(sigh...) The end of your post and no "good philosophical discussion". I guess there really wasn't any... oh well...

Jorge

RevDahlia

Jorge, you aren't going to get ANY discussion under the terms YOU defined. You have alleged that non-Christians are incapable of comprehending the Bible, and here you are inviting "good philosophical discussions", on the Bible, with a bunch of non-Christians. Excuse me?

Pot. Kettle. Black.

[edited to fix tortured grammar]

Amaranth

DFtT

Jorge

Originally posted by smugg

About ten [years].

Neat! Let's see what ya got...

I don't count. I've read the Bible cover to cover at least twice and I revisit certain books numerous times.

Good for you!

Like AndresDeLaHoz, I would recommend looking around and getting a good feel for the people to whom you speak before making assumptions. While I don't doubt that there are some who visit this forum who haven't or don't read it as thoroughly as you, it's certainly not true of many here.

If you read my initial post, you'll plainly see that I asked. Nonetheless, I do believe that on an 'Infidels Website', certain things may be reasonably assumed, yes? This isn't a Christian Apologetics Website, is it?

Ahh, here's the real crux (no pun intended...). You know, if you read the Bagavad Gita with the 'right' attitude it wouldn't be hard to accept Brahma as the source of all things. It works for any story. If, however, the 'inspired word of God' can't stand up to a little sceptical scrutiny He can't be all that reliable, don't you think?

And here's your first real mistake. The Brahma doesn't have the historical and other evidential support that the totality of Christianity offers. The common ploy of equating Christianity with Buddhism, Hinduism or Snake God worship is ludicrous and is indicative of a desperate attempt at tossing the 'real' thing into the heap of falsehoods.

So what? If God were a little smarter, maybe He could get His 'perfect' message across in a way that is understandable. Or maybe He should have given His creations enough intelligence to understand Him...

You are leaving out many important considerations, the main one being, what was His 'purpose' in orchestrating things the way that He did? Can you answer that question?

Sure, but could you find two that come away with the same message?

In certain areas, absolutely! In other areas, no. But then, that was part of His plan. You see, God is a personal God and, as such, He will give one person some things that He does not give to another. That's not too difficult to understand, is it?

Combined? Is this including all the scholars who understand the Bible's metaphorical nature or do we exclude those scholars who make you uncomfortable? For example, I have huge advantages over Augustine -- I've read about the life of Buddha and can see how his story influenced the Gospels six-hundred years later. Thanks to Copernicus, Newton, Einstein, and others, I have a much better understanding of the nature of matter, energy, and stellar movement. The list is huge.

I follow but this is digressing. We are talking about alleged Bible contradictions/errors.

Your pride in the Bible's inconsistencies is cute, but hardly a refutation.

I haven't even begun a "refutation". I've merely pointed out the obvious: that it takes a heck of a lot more than finding some (apparent) paradoxes to refute a Book that has been held in the highest regard for centuries... a book that has withstood centuries of attacks including dedicated attempts at making it disappear altogether.

Answer me this, if the Bible contradictions represent such a clear proof of its unworthiness, then why is it that scholars on both sides of the fence continue spending entires lives investigating the matter? You don't see anyone spending their life investigating the phlogiston theory or the blood humors theory any more, do you?

Speaking of Kindergarten, your schoolyard boasting is misplaced here. That may work on your morning ride on the short bus, but it's just an empty claim on this board.

For crying out loud, man, it was meant only as an analogy (please refer to my original post). Specifically, you guys are up to around 1,000 alleged "problems". I (nowhere near being a full-fledged scholar in the subject) am up to 31,000. Yes, I would have to say that compared to even one as lowly as me you guys are in pre-kindergarden in this subject. Anyone that is objective and honest would have to agree with this statement.

Yes. I bet the incredulity at your utter lack of humility will cause people to wonder why bother worshiping Jesus if even Christians don't care about His message!

Preposterous! I have always been bold and brave in my position regarding Christ. But the villification process contorts this boldness into 'arrogance and lack of humility'. Hey, whatever turns you on, big guy.

Jorge