Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The Other Michael · 03-05-2003, 09:42 AM

Last night I went to a Catholic "vigil service" (the funeral is later today) and the priest did a rosary.

This was 5 sets of 10 repetitions (Hail Mary's), with some different prayer between the sets.

What's the reason for the repetition? Is it because all lines are busy and they've got to keep repeating it in the hopes that Prayer Central will pick it up?

The Tibetans seem a lot more sensible with their water-driven prayer wheels to automate the process.

Also, when the priest would finish his part he'd always give a little head-bob (not quite like Ronald Reagan though). This seemed to coincide with mentioning Jesus. Is this part of the ritual, or was it likely to be just some sort of mannerism of this particular priest?

thanks,
Michael

Biff the unclean · 03-05-2003, 10:06 AM

The sets are for keeping count. They are kept track of by the Rosary which is a set of prayer beads. Prayer beads were common in classical days from the Eastern Mediterranean to Nepal. They evolved into the abacus in China.
In Greece they were widely used by the "Mystery Cults" most notably the worshipers of Dionysos. Today they are called "worry beads" there.
The repetition of prayers to Mary date from the Middle Ages and their mysticism movements. They aren't related to the Buddhist prayer wheels but are closely related to Buddhist mantras.

All Christians (until the reformation) bowed their heads at the mention of Jesus or God. It was a Roman custom for slaves to bow their heads when their master's names were spoken to show subservience.
:notworthy

openeyes · 03-05-2003, 10:10 AM

Although I've prayed a lot of rosaries when I was young, it's been quite some time, so I'll let others answer your questions.

As a side note, I was talking to my mom yesterday about her sore knees and her need to lose weight (may be diabetic) and her exercise program. She used to walk around the house while saying the rosary, but since her knees are bothering her, she thinking of just saying a decade (one group of 10 beads).

Seems like superstitious behavior to me, but if it helps you get that needed exercise done...

Philosoft · 03-05-2003, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Biff the unclean

In Greece they were widely used by the "Mystery Cults" most notably the worshipers of Dionysos. Today they are called "worry beads" there.

I had a Greek roommate in college and his mother sent us all sets of shiny metal worry beads. They didn't seem to be good for wearing - too big for the wrist yet too small for the neck. I was told they were for carrying and rubbing, which seemed like more of a way to spend nervous energy than anything. I think I still have them somewhere.

03-05-2003, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Biff the unclean
The sets are for keeping count. They are kept track of by the Rosary which is a set of prayer beads. Prayer beads were common in classical days from the Eastern Mediterranean to Nepal. They evolved into the abacus in China.

Biff you show a lot of knowledge in this area. Very interesting. I once read that in primitive Africa they threw peas from one bowl into another to keep the pace during meditation. I think it was in "Heart of Darkness."

Gemma Therese · 03-05-2003, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Other Michael
Last night I went to a Catholic "vigil service" (the funeral is later today) and the priest did a rosary.

This was 5 sets of 10 repetitions (Hail Mary's), with some different prayer between the sets.

What's the reason for the repetition? Is it because all lines are busy and they've got to keep repeating it in the hopes that Prayer Central will pick it up?

The Tibetans seem a lot more sensible with their water-driven prayer wheels to automate the process.

Also, when the priest would finish his part he'd always give a little head-bob (not quite like Ronald Reagan though). This seemed to coincide with mentioning Jesus. Is this part of the ritual, or was it likely to be just some sort of mannerism of this particular priest?

thanks,
Michael

The purpose of the repitition is to enable the one praying to reflect on the mysteries of the rosary. The mysteries are:

Joyful mysteries --
The annunciation (1 Our Father, 10 Hail Mary's, 1 Glory Be)
The Visitation (1 Our Father, etc)
The Nativity
The Presentation
The Finding in the Temple

Sorrowful mysteries --
The Agony in the Garden
The Scourging at the Pillar
The Crowning of Thorns
The Carrying of the Cross
The Crucifixion

Glorious mysteries --
The Ressurection
The Ascension
The Descent of the Holy Spirit
The Assumption of the Blessed Mother
The Coronation

A Full Rosary, hence, consists of 15 decades, but it is standard to recite a different 5 each day.

The Rosary is a contemplative prayer.

Gemma Therese

Biff the unclean · 03-05-2003, 12:49 PM

Yes, there is something "mind altering" (some might argue "mind numbing") about the constant repetition of a phrase or a simple action.
People with OCD are compelled to bring their minds to this state just to feel normal.
I work with captive animals and we find that if we don't supply enough "enrichment" (a catch phrase meaning an activity to keep their minds busy) that they quickly fall into repetitive behavior.

I find it interesting that these "worry beads" that are left over from Greek Hellenism and are an aid to "meditation" were used in the movie The Cain Mutiny (they were called ball bearings in the show) not to show that Humphrey Bogart was holy but that he was unbalanced. A great deal of the behavior that is considered religious is seen as neurotic when taken on it's own merits.

Bree · 03-05-2003, 01:00 PM

IIRC, there is also a pagan type of rosary. I can't seem to find any information on it, though - Brighid, could you help me out here?

Born Free · 03-05-2003, 02:32 PM

The rosary is a nightmare....especially having to say all of it.....especially when you're only 10....I really hated saying it. It's pure torture nothing else.

thebeave · 03-05-2003, 03:03 PM

Once in a while I participate in a BBS on 4x4 truck repair, and this guy from Mississippi was writing that he was having a starting problem, and he ended up trying about 20 things to solve it. He mentioned that he even said the rosary, in the hopes that would help. Another guy wrote in and said "LOL" or "that's a good one" in response to the rosary comment, and the Mississippi guy wrote back very angry and defensive. He was serious about having said the rosary for his truck problem! I mean, c'mon now is that the stupidest thing you've ever heard?... everyone knows Jesus was a carpenter NOT an auto mechanic! Now if the guy was having a problem cutting accurate miter joints...

03-05-2003, 09:42 AM	#1
The Other Michael Honorary Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: In the fog of San Francisco Posts: 12,631	Rosary question Last night I went to a Catholic "vigil service" (the funeral is later today) and the priest did a rosary. This was 5 sets of 10 repetitions (Hail Mary's), with some different prayer between the sets. What's the reason for the repetition? Is it because all lines are busy and they've got to keep repeating it in the hopes that Prayer Central will pick it up? The Tibetans seem a lot more sensible with their water-driven prayer wheels to automate the process. Also, when the priest would finish his part he'd always give a little head-bob (not quite like Ronald Reagan though). This seemed to coincide with mentioning Jesus. Is this part of the ritual, or was it likely to be just some sort of mannerism of this particular priest? thanks, Michael

03-05-2003, 01:00 PM	#8
Bree Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Twin Cities, USA Posts: 3,197	Brighid? IIRC, there is also a pagan type of rosary. I can't seem to find any information on it, though - Brighid, could you help me out here?

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03-05-2003, 10:06 AM	#2
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	The sets are for keeping count. They are kept track of by the Rosary which is a set of prayer beads. Prayer beads were common in classical days from the Eastern Mediterranean to Nepal. They evolved into the abacus in China. In Greece they were widely used by the "Mystery Cults" most notably the worshipers of Dionysos. Today they are called "worry beads" there. The repetition of prayers to Mary date from the Middle Ages and their mysticism movements. They aren't related to the Buddhist prayer wheels but are closely related to Buddhist mantras. All Christians (until the reformation) bowed their heads at the mention of Jesus or God. It was a Roman custom for slaves to bow their heads when their master's names were spoken to show subservience. :notworthy

03-05-2003, 10:10 AM	#3
openeyes Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Minnesota Posts: 4,215	Although I've prayed a lot of rosaries when I was young, it's been quite some time, so I'll let others answer your questions. As a side note, I was talking to my mom yesterday about her sore knees and her need to lose weight (may be diabetic) and her exercise program. She used to walk around the house while saying the rosary, but since her knees are bothering her, she thinking of just saying a decade (one group of 10 beads). Seems like superstitious behavior to me, but if it helps you get that needed exercise done...

03-05-2003, 12:49 PM	#7
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	Yes, there is something "mind altering" (some might argue "mind numbing") about the constant repetition of a phrase or a simple action. People with OCD are compelled to bring their minds to this state just to feel normal. I work with captive animals and we find that if we don't supply enough "enrichment" (a catch phrase meaning an activity to keep their minds busy) that they quickly fall into repetitive behavior. I find it interesting that these "worry beads" that are left over from Greek Hellenism and are an aid to "meditation" were used in the movie The Cain Mutiny (they were called ball bearings in the show) not to show that Humphrey Bogart was holy but that he was unbalanced. A great deal of the behavior that is considered religious is seen as neurotic when taken on it's own merits.

03-05-2003, 02:32 PM	#9
Born Free Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Scotland Posts: 4,177	The rosary is a nightmare....especially having to say all of it.....especially when you're only 10....I really hated saying it. It's pure torture nothing else.

03-05-2003, 03:03 PM	#10
thebeave Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Silicon Valley, CA Posts: 4,183	Once in a while I participate in a BBS on 4x4 truck repair, and this guy from Mississippi was writing that he was having a starting problem, and he ended up trying about 20 things to solve it. He mentioned that he even said the rosary, in the hopes that would help. Another guy wrote in and said "LOL" or "that's a good one" in response to the rosary comment, and the Mississippi guy wrote back very angry and defensive. He was serious about having said the rosary for his truck problem! I mean, c'mon now is that the stupidest thing you've ever heard?... everyone knows Jesus was a carpenter NOT an auto mechanic! Now if the guy was having a problem cutting accurate miter joints...

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