Rational Ag

Although I seem to be most in agreement with tronvillain, since I am new to these arguments and much of the language is over my head I must admit I don't understand a lot of the conversation. I guess I am not as well versed as many of you on philosophy and space-time issues.

The way I see it (which is a naturalistic, somewhat unsophisticated point of view) aligns very well with what Jesse had to say. In fact, I was about to offer a similar analogy.

Time is a label, a set of units, we as humans apply to the universe, to explain to ourselves and one another, the changes we see around us from one moment to the next. Time gives us a frame of reference everyone can understand that is universal.

"The present" is a made-up concept of a single point in a chain of moments that is current to a particular viewpoint. "The present" isn't a moving entity, but it always exists. It is a label, and a frame of reference.

For example, we are having this conversation now, in the present. If we had a still-photography camera pointing at my computer constantly taking shots of me (bad idea, it's not a pretty picture ), then at a time label of 11:30 p.m. CST, which to me is currently the present, that would be true. Next week would be the present as well, but in a different time frame of reference, since that is in the future. The present is no more than a label, and without a specific time to relate it to, it's meaningless.

When reading the works of someone who wrote in the 17th century, and that writer had stated something that spoke of "in the present", the person reading that obviously has to consider the time frame of reference that the author is referring to. The author certainly is not writing in the present according to the reader, because the writer would obviously be worm food at that point.

As far as consciousness goes, I personally remember the past by relating my feelings, memories, thoughts, ideas, etc to specific events that were happening. I remember things from my childhood based on who I spent time with or what I was learning. I remember things from college based on what courses I was in, etc. Based on what is happening to me now, in the present, my mind will group different images and feelings together such that I can relate back to this time.

After skimming through Jesse's page about "Being and Becoming...", it would seem as though I subscribe to the ideas of possibleism.

My brain hurts now.

-Rational Ag

[ March 20, 2002: Message edited by: Rational Ag ]</p>

Jimmy Higgins

Infinity? The term confuses me sometimes. There are two types of infinities, that I can think of atleast.

1) Actual infinity
Take a numberline that starts at negative infinity and continues to positive infinity.

2) Relative infinity
Take a finite line that starts at -100 to 100. The number of points on numbers in between the beginning and end are infinite. -100, -99.9, -99.99, -99.999, -99.9999... etc.

Both are real. However, when we deal with time, people always assume that situation 1 takes prescendence. Why not 2?