Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Kevin Dorner · 08-13-2002, 07:17 AM

There's an interesting quote from Ferdinand Magellan on this:

"The Church says that the Earth is flat, but I know that it is round. For I have seen the shadow on the moon and I have more faith in the Shadow than in the Church."

I'm wondering what the history is on this quotation (such as a reference to his journal or some other piece of hard evidence that he said it. It's certainly well-known and oft-mentioned, and I was unable to find anything on a reputable refutation site (such as Snopes) debunking it.

Given that Magellan died in 1521, and Washington Irving was born 262 years later, it would certainly refute the earlier hypothesis.

Radcliffe Emerson · 08-13-2002, 08:26 AM

The church also thought "through divine intervention" that earth was the only planet.
Giordano Bruno was burned at the stake by the Holy Inquisition in Rome on February 17, 1600 for daring to say there were other planets out there than just earth. This was unacceptable to the church as Jesus as God only came to earth, therefore earth was the center of the universe (another official belief of the church for centuries).
Yes times change and we learn more. It doesn't change the fact that a flat earth, no other planets, and other (to me) hokey beliefs were once thought to be God-inspired beliefs. As we learn more about science and evolution, it becomes more apparent that biblical myths are just that, myths and nothing more.

Undercurrent · 08-13-2002, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Abacus:
"Why take the six-day creation from the O.T. to be literal, but not the flat earth?"

It's all part of the five stages of biblical truth.

1) true.

2) True.

3) TRUE.

4) TRUE!!!! And the only reason people say otherwise is because they want to defame the bible!!!!

5) Obvious poetical/allegorical saying and the only reason people say otherwise is because they want to defame the bible!!!!

The flat-earth passages reached stage 5 probably even before the bible was compiled. The geocentric passes, in the 16-1700s, and the 6-day creation story is transitioning from stage 4 to stage 5 as we speak.

m.

Valentine Pontifex · 08-13-2002, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kevin Dorner:
There's an interesting quote from Ferdinand Magellan on this:

"The Church says that the Earth is flat, but I know that it is round. For I have seen the shadow on the moon and I have more faith in the Shadow than in the Church."

I'm wondering what the history is on this quotation (such as a reference to his journal or some other piece of hard evidence that he said it. It's certainly well-known and oft-mentioned, and I was unable to find anything on a reputable refutation site (such as Snopes) debunking it.

Given that Magellan died in 1521, and Washington Irving was born 262 years later, it would certainly refute the earlier hypothesis.

I have heard that quote and I am sure it is wrong. Either that or Magellan did not know what he was talking about. The Church most definately did not support a flat Earth since at least the time of Augustine. If anything the Church had incorporated a lot of the "science" of the Greeks into its theology.

Valentine Pontifex · 08-13-2002, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Koyaanisqatsi:
Boy do I hate this one. People, attention!

Nobody ever thought the world was flat, especially not anybody from biblical days. That was a myth started by Washington Irving (the author of the Legend of Sleepy Hollow) in one of his essays about Columbus, because it made it seem like Columbus was more heroic than the mass murdering slave trader he actually was.

This is not accurate. It is true that Irving invented the legend that Columbus has to convince his backers the world was not flat. They all knew. All educated people at that time knew. But uneducated people, especially those not involved in ocean commerce, did not know the world was a sphere. Indeed the discovery that it is a sphere is only 2500 years old (give or take).

KeithHarwood · 08-13-2002, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LordValentine:


This is not accurate. It is true that Irving invented the legend that Columbus has to convince his backers the world was not flat. They all knew. All educated people at that time knew. But uneducated people, especially those not involved in ocean commerce, did not know the world was a sphere. Indeed the discovery that it is a sphere is only 2500 years old (give or take).

The argument that Columbus had was about the size of the earth. They said it was much bigger than he did. They were right. If the American continents hadn't been there, he wouldn't have made it back live.

Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ · 08-13-2002, 08:49 PM

Ever take a look at ancient Hebrew cosmology? FLAT EARTH. Along with a little ceiling with holes for rain in it. Got that straight from the (what is now called) OT. Remind them of that little fact. Tell them to shut up afterwards.

[edited to add:]
Ooops, forgot to read the links. My bad

[ August 13, 2002: Message edited by: Jesus Christ ]

08-13-2002, 08:49 PM	#17
Jesus Tap-Dancin' Christ Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Heaven Posts: 6,980	Ever take a look at ancient Hebrew cosmology? FLAT EARTH. Along with a little ceiling with holes for rain in it. Got that straight from the (what is now called) OT. Remind them of that little fact. Tell them to shut up afterwards. [edited to add:] Ooops, forgot to read the links. My bad [ August 13, 2002: Message edited by: Jesus Christ ]</p>

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08-13-2002, 07:17 AM	#11
Kevin Dorner Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 762	There's an interesting quote from Ferdinand Magellan on this: "The Church says that the Earth is flat, but I know that it is round. For I have seen the shadow on the moon and I have more faith in the Shadow than in the Church." I'm wondering what the history is on this quotation (such as a reference to his journal or some other piece of hard evidence that he said it. It's certainly well-known and oft-mentioned, and I was unable to find anything on a reputable refutation site (such as Snopes) debunking it. Given that Magellan died in 1521, and Washington Irving was born 262 years later, it would certainly refute the earlier hypothesis.

08-13-2002, 08:26 AM	#12
Radcliffe Emerson Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: the dark side of Mars Posts: 1,309	The church also thought "through divine intervention" that earth was the only planet. Giordano Bruno was burned at the stake by the Holy Inquisition in Rome on February 17, 1600 for daring to say there were other planets out there than just earth. This was unacceptable to the church as Jesus as God only came to earth, therefore earth was the center of the universe (another official belief of the church for centuries). Yes times change and we learn more. It doesn't change the fact that a flat earth, no other planets, and other (to me) hokey beliefs were once thought to be God-inspired beliefs. As we learn more about science and evolution, it becomes more apparent that biblical myths are just that, myths and nothing more.

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