DMB

Very succinct and apposite! <img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" /> <img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" />
I know that this thread is about the catholic church, but I am surprised you don't bother to look at the anglican church, which has had women priests for some years with great success.

This would be a fine sentiment if the church had shown half as much concern or compassion for the victims of its erring priests.

I don't know how you worked this out. It's true that there has been a great furore about paedophile priests in the USA, but there have been repeated scandals in Europe about this for years and there has also been a big ongoing problem of sexual abuse of nuns and other girls and women by priests in Africa.

Bible Humper

Amos:

Is this new age clap trap similar to the Vulcan mind-meld?

I'm assuming by "making witches out of them" you don't mean that women priests would spontaneously turn pagan, but rather that they would become magic sorceresses? You believe this shit?

"For God so mocked the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whoever would believe in him would believe in anything."

Hahaha, what magical powers do the sacraments bestow?

This sounds like a Bushism....

Playing musical chairs with diddler priests is not an "error"? You want to tell that to the children whose lives have been utterly ruined, and to the mother whose baby has killed himself because of the horror of these incidents?

Baaaaaaa.....

First you slipped out a Bushism, now you claim that freedom is slavery and slavery is freedom? Is this actually George W Bush we're talking to?

ManM:

Who gives a fuck about defrocking? I couldn't care less if they give them a Catholic Priest Of The Month medal when they rape their first kid, I'm talking about how they not just protect them from the law, but move them elsewhere.

The way they shuffle the diddler off to another congregation who doesn't know about his appetites is actually much worse than ignoring, it is aiding and abetting.

Who has that link with all of the crimes of the papacy? There have been numerous Popes who were confirmed paedophiles, including the gem from the 1500s who entertained the elite of Italy with parties that included little boys hopping naked out of tubs of pudding.

Read about Rome during the dark ages and you will find many references to the "catamites"(boy lovers) of the priests. Paedophilia is an ancient tradition of the church.

Oh, so they wouldn't just shuffle this harmless fellow to another parish though they do so for kiddy rapists?

The fact that the Catholic church makes such a bloody stink about all of their petty little sexual taboos of things that are harmless or beneficial(contraception) on the one hand, but then bend over backwards for the sake of paedophile priests on the other, is such a glaring example of utter hypocrisy that I'm baffled as to how they have any non-catholic sympathisers in this matter at all.

[ August 14, 2002: Message edited by: Splashing Colours Of Whimsy ]</p>

Bible Humper

ManM, Daemon already addressed where you went wrong in your last post, but I want to add a few things.

Yes it is, but although they don't come right out and endorse it by saying "go right on ahead, priest, if you don't get caught then who gives a fuck", they are teaching it by their refusal to adopt a zero tolerance policy towards paedophile priests and in fact aiding them by moving them where they aren't known.

Bzzzt, wrong! Lets see my comment put back in context:

The church moves paedophile priests to new congregations after they get caught. The recent council of tonsured twits has decreed that they will only take punitive action once the priest becomes "notorious", rejecting calls for a zero tolerance policy. These actions speak much louder than the hot air they blow on their pulpits, and as Daemon pointed out, not all teaching is done verbally. Any questions?

[ August 14, 2002: Message edited by: Splashing Colours Of Whimsy ]</p>

Amos

Originally posted by Splashing Colours Of Whimsy:
<strong>Amos:

quote:
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Bridghid, priesthood is for males only because the successfull convergeance of the twain mind is available to males only.
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Is this new age clap trap similar to the Vulcan mind-meld?

Beatific vision and hypostatic union are not new age expressions.

quote:
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This may only be one reason but is sufficient in itself and means that the seventh sacrament should never be given to females because that would start them unto a journey in life that they will not be able to finish. Worse yet, with the power given to priest it would/could make witches out of them and the Church is not interested in promoting that which they at one time tried to eradicate.
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I'm assuming by "making witches out of them" you don't mean that women priests would spontaneously turn pagan, but rather that they would become magic sorceresses? You believe this shit?

Historically witches were not pagan and all witches were sorcerers and sorceresses or they would not have been considdered witches. Magic is excluded here and the spirits are not recognized as evil by the witches. No I don't believe this shit but know at least that much about it.

quote:
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Judaism and Catholicism are/were rival religions. We, as Catholics, are Jews by adoption and so become the grafted branches into Judaism to benefit from the Law. Both are equal except that Catholicism is just a little more aggressive through the powers bestowed by the Sacraments.
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Hahaha, what magical powers do the sacraments bestow?

The're like witchcraft but involuntary extrapolated from omnipotence.


quote:
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Other than that I am not aware of anti-Judaism and it is not until things go wrong to members of the Church that they are wrong.
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This sounds like a Bushism....

Except that here the Church was prepared for it

quote:
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I do believe that the Church has always tried to stop error as now is the case with the excommunicated priestesses.
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Playing musical chairs with diddler priests is not an "error"? You want to tell that to the children whose lives have been utterly ruined, and to the mother whose baby has killed himself because of the horror of these incidents?

Baaaaaaa.....

Well yes it is and error but it is not the Church's error. The Church would always call it a sin and would call it a sin even if the victims did come back for seconds.

quote:
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Slavery? I think there is more slavery now than ever before which kind of proves that while we are alienated from God humans must be enslaved to something--even if that is freethinking which in itself suggests that we are not free or we would not have to "think free.
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First you slipped out a Bushism, now you claim that freedom is slavery and slavery is freedom? Is this actually George W Bush we're talking to?

No, I claim that there is no freedom until we are freed from our own imagination and only a properly focussed religion can help us achieve this.

</strong>

[ August 14, 2002: Message edited by: Amos ]</p>

Bible Humper

Hello Amos,

Hmm, it sounded new age to me, and since you seem to have a very new age interpretation of christianity, I figured that this was just another example of it.

Since you have said that it is actually a part of mainstream theology, I'll accept that as fact unless someone contradicts it.

So, is this christian clap trap similar to the Vulcan mind meld?

Well, many people consider the word "witch" to be associated with paganism, but like I said here, it didn't seem to me that you were referring to that type of witch.


Do you have a different definition of the word "sorcerer" than most people? You said that females gaining the "power of priests" would become
witches, and then you clarified that by "witches" you meant "sorcerers and sorceresses". How the heck is magic excluded from sorcery?

WTF? You said that women gaining the "power of priests" would become witches, and that by "witches" you mean sorceresses, but you don't believe in sorcery?

"Like witchcraft"? I thought that you don't believe in sorcery....

If the church commits a sin it isn't an error of the church? "Do as I say, not as I do"? I thought that christianity claimed objective morality....

How does religion free imagination?

It actually stifles much imagination because of the numerous taboos that are not to even be thought about such as pre-marital sex, meditations on the writings of rival faiths, and even your own theology that would surely be denounced as heretical by the catholic hierarchy if you were to tell them about it.

Amos

Hello SCOW, we seem to have a communication problem and that is probably my fault for not being clear. You are not the first one to tell me about new age so I know what you mean when you suggest that. But tell me, are those terms (beatific vision and hypostatic union) used in new age religions?

The contradiction from Christians will be that we must die before this happens and until then nobody can know about it. This includes Catholics who coined the phrases.

I am not familiar with the Vulcan mind meld so I can't answer you there.




You probably have an American definition of witches who must be distinguished as pagan or they would be too much like the local Christians. This resemblance is precisely what the Church is trying to avoid.

I exclude magic because not all magic employs scorcery.

I also did not say that all priestesses would become witches but wrote that the danger exist and is real. This in itself is not the end of the world but since it always was a nasty side product of Catholicism it would be wrong for the Church to expose them to this temptation.




The craftiness of involuntary extrapolation rest with the Church and not the undergoer of the event. Above I called them sacramental powers which makes the Church an occult and not a cult (as I posted earlier). In the end this means that there are no witches in heaven but lots of them are soaring through midheaven.

[qoute]
Well yes it is and error but it is not the Church's error. The Church would always call it a sin and would call it a sin even if the victims did come back for seconds.

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If the church commits a sin it isn't an error of the church? "Do as I say, not as I do"? I thought that christianity claimed objective morality....

[/quote]
You must separate the Church from the State and since we, as humans, are not dispenser of punishment for sin we can do nothing else but forgive the sinner and possibly turn the same over to the State for proper punishment. We, the Church, are much like Jesus and love sinners.

It was unfair of me to write that we must be set free from our imaginations because we must be set free from the slavery to our imaginations. The concept sin is like the grain of sand in an oyster shell which antagonizes us until it is removed and only a properly focussed religion can do this.

Anunnaki

Really? <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

Amos,
I don`t think anyone here has any idea what you`re talking about and you seem to be twice as confusing as you were before your break from the forum.
What is the most important book a person could read to help understand Christianity as according to Amos?

Amos

The Catholic Bible.

Bible Humper

Hello Amos,

Actually, the way you said it the first time is what lead me to believe that this was a new age idea:

You later explained that this concept is understood by the terms "beautific vision and hypostatic union" in christian theology, and I have already decided to take your word for it. I see no reason to suspect a lie, why did you think that I didn't believe you?

I still stand by my comment that your theology is very new age in other respects, though, because I have seen you refer to Kundalini and the 7 chakras, for example, which are certainly not to be found in mainstream christian theology.

Well, not all magic is sorcery, but all sorcery is magic.

Please explain how there is a danger of catholic priestesses becoming sorceresses and describe this transformation.

Also, please clarify what you mean by sorcery "always was a nasty side product of Catholicism" because I have no idea what this means. The church has always been against the practice of sorcery.

Are you then opposed to the actions of the American churches that protected the guilty priests from the law?

If Catholic theology demands that all sinners be forgiven, then they can go ahead and forgive them, but they should leave the legal consequences to the legal process, don't you agree?

daemon

Sorry Amos, I'm quite familiar with the Catholic Bible, and your viewpoint still makes no sense. You contradict the teachings of the Catholic Church on any number of core doctrinal issues...