Freethought & Rationalism Archive

galiel · 11-08-2002, 05:00 PM

Interesting review of
"Varieties of Religion Today: William James Revisited" by Charles Taylor in Boston Review, in which the reviewer, Richard Eldrige, challenges Taylor's assertion that we all need a god.
<a href="http://www-polisci.mit.edu/BR27.5/eldridge.html" target="_blank">http://www-polisci.mit.edu/BR27.5/eldridge.html</a>

ELECTROGOD · 11-08-2002, 05:21 PM

Well, I certainly don't need a fairytale god(s) in my life, it just made my life suck when I thought I did.

Vesica · 11-20-2002, 05:48 AM

Do we need a god?

I am with Joseph Campbell on this one. We do not need one god or certain kinds of gods but religions are a mythos that tells us about the world, how it is and where we fit. Below are some quotes by Campbell on God, religion and life.

God is a metaphor for that which trancends all levels of intellectual thought. It's as simple as that.

Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble.

People say that what we're all seeking is a meaning for life. I don't think that's what we're really seeking. I think that what we're seeking is an experience of being alive, so that our life experiences on the purely physical plane will have resonances within our innermost being and reality, so that we actually feel the rapture of being alive.

SO no, we don't necc. need a God but we still seem to be looking for those stories that will tell us how to live and how to be authentic in our lives.

11-20-2002, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vesica:
[QB
SO no, we don't necc. need a God but we still seem to be looking for those stories that will tell us how to live and how to be authentic in our lives.[/QB]

In other words, we need to know God because he is our authenticity and religion is aimed to achieve this. I am with you on this and we can blame religion but not God.

Vibr8gKiwi · 11-20-2002, 08:04 AM

From that it sounds to me like we need metaphor, social story telling and such--not god.

Vesica · 11-20-2002, 08:33 AM

Vibr8gKiwi - Exactly! We need a metaphor..God just happens to work well in this capacity for some!

Jobar · 11-20-2002, 09:37 AM

"Works very well for some"? The trouble with God-as-metaphor is all the baggage that it has collected down through the centuries. I think that, for instance, Amos has a view of God which is in essence not too different from my own- as Campbell says "that which transcends all levels of intellectual thought." Yet the intellectual trappings he tries to link to this ultimately wordless experience weigh him down.

I would have to say that it would be 'some small few'.

Vesica · 11-21-2002, 04:30 AM

Jobar:
But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble.
I think this is where so many religions have gotten into trouble. We squeeze God into a 'man-sized' box and then repeat opinion as fact so we can understand him (and I suspect we want to predict him, manipulate him and change his mind).

11-21-2002, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jobar:
<strong>as Campbell says "that which transcends all levels of intellectual thought." Yet the intellectual trappings he tries to link to this ultimately wordless experience weigh him down.

</strong>

Yes they can and that is why there is only one Church that can do that! The rest of them are all confused by the artistry of our heaven.

Jobar · 11-21-2002, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amos:
<strong>

Yes they can and that is why there is only one Church that can do that! The rest of them are all confused by the artistry of our heaven.</strong>

Ah, Amos, but *they* say the same thing about you.

I was reading a bit in the SL&S forum about ritual; I freely admit that some of the most beautiful and life-affirming of them are Roman Catholic. The trouble is that people are far too literal minded, and the ritual *becomes* the religion. Instead of looking where the finger points, and giving reverence to the wordless reality being pointed at, the pointing finger becomes the thing worshipped. For this reason beautiful rituals are often a hindrance to finding whatever truth can be found in religion; the rituals themselves become the things worshipped. Idols need not be human shaped, or even physical objects; an idea can be an idol.

11-08-2002, 05:00 PM	#1
galiel Banned Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Eastern Massachusetts Posts: 1,677	"Do we need a god? Maybe not" Interesting review of "Varieties of Religion Today: William James Revisited" by Charles Taylor in Boston Review, in which the reviewer, Richard Eldrige, challenges Taylor's assertion that we all need a god. <a href="http://www-polisci.mit.edu/BR27.5/eldridge.html" target="_blank">http://www-polisci.mit.edu/BR27.5/eldridge.html</a>

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11-08-2002, 05:21 PM	#2
ELECTROGOD Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: GR, MI USA Posts: 4,009	Well, I certainly don't need a fairytale god(s) in my life, it just made my life suck when I thought I did.

11-20-2002, 05:48 AM	#3
Vesica Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Sunny FLA USA Posts: 212	Do we need a god? I am with Joseph Campbell on this one. We do not need one god or certain kinds of gods but religions are a mythos that tells us about the world, how it is and where we fit. Below are some quotes by Campbell on God, religion and life. God is a metaphor for that which trancends all levels of intellectual thought. It's as simple as that. Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble. People say that what we're all seeking is a meaning for life. I don't think that's what we're really seeking. I think that what we're seeking is an experience of being alive, so that our life experiences on the purely physical plane will have resonances within our innermost being and reality, so that we actually feel the rapture of being alive. SO no, we don't necc. need a God but we still seem to be looking for those stories that will tell us how to live and how to be authentic in our lives.

11-20-2002, 08:04 AM	#5
Vibr8gKiwi Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: CA, USA Posts: 543	From that it sounds to me like we need metaphor, social story telling and such--not god.

11-20-2002, 08:33 AM	#6
Vesica Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Sunny FLA USA Posts: 212	Vibr8gKiwi - Exactly! We need a metaphor..God just happens to work well in this capacity for some!

11-20-2002, 09:37 AM	#7
Jobar Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: secularcafe.org Posts: 9,525	"Works very well for some"? The trouble with God-as-metaphor is all the baggage that it has collected down through the centuries. I think that, for instance, Amos has a view of God which is in essence not too different from my own- as Campbell says "that which transcends all levels of intellectual thought." Yet the intellectual trappings he tries to link to this ultimately wordless experience weigh him down. I would have to say that it would be 'some small few'.

11-21-2002, 04:30 AM	#8
Vesica Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Sunny FLA USA Posts: 212	Jobar: But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble. I think this is where so many religions have gotten into trouble. We squeeze God into a 'man-sized' box and then repeat opinion as fact so we can understand him (and I suspect we want to predict him, manipulate him and change his mind).

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