Scrambles

I have heard some christians say that if God does not exist, then life does not essentially have any meaning. Well, I would like to know how the existence of a God would give life "meaning".

So could anyone give me some sort of explanation of this?


Scrambles

Tom Sawyer

The basic gist of it is that this life is just a temporary stop towards spending an eternity with Jebus. While you're here for a few decades, your only job is to set your place in the eyes of the Lord so that He'll know how to treat you for the next umpteen quadrillion years.

If there is no God, then this life is all there is. If you live a good and moral life or if you live a horrific life, it makes no difference in the end. There is no final judgement and no comeupence for those that did wrong. No matter how you live your life, it all just ends in oblivion and you're erased from existence forever.

Xians tend to believe that without a final judge to give you a report card on how you did and without the guarantee of an eternity of bliss for those who get a C+ or higher, then nothing matters. If everything is finite and comes to the same end no matter what, why does anything we do in the meantime matter?

They seem to be unable to grasp the concept that meaning in life is what we give it while we're here, and think that the fact that whatever meaning that is is temporary and not just a minor stop along an eternal path makes that meaning irrelevant. Perhaps they're right and a universe with no God in it is a meaningless place. That doesn't, however, give any credence to the fact that their mythical Sky Daddy is real, it would just mean that life is meaningless.

[Edited for dyslexia]

[ October 01, 2002: Message edited by: peteyh ]</p>

Jamie_L

My response is: how does that have any bearing on whether or not God exists? Maybe theist X doesn't like the idea of life having no meaning, but what they like or dislike has little bearing on reality.

Jamie

Ojuice5001

If the gods do not exist, then humans and warm-blooded animals are the only creatures with purposes in the world. With the addition of gods, more purpose exists than just that created by humans and warm-blooded animals. So I would say that life often has some meaning without the gods, however there is a lot more meaning in life if the gods exist.

Jamie_L, it is relevant to whether the gods actually exist because the theist sees preexisting purpose in the world and uses the gods or God as an explanation of this purpose. I might be right, and the person who says the sense of purpose is an illusion might be right, but the sense of purpose is related to both Scrambles's question and the question of the gods' existence.

[ October 01, 2002: Message edited by: Ojuice5001 ]</p>

RJS

It is probably easiest to start with what an atheist views as the meaning of life, since you disagree with their premise.

K

RJS:

As an atheist, I say there is no ultimate meaning to life. Life is life - live it! Being alive is its own reward - no god or deeper meaning is necessary.

RJS

So it sounds like K and Scrambles could have a debate.

Scrambles says (and takes issue with)...

K essentially agrees with the target Christians, and says.....

[ October 01, 2002: Message edited by: RJS ]</p>

Scrambles

Hi everyone, thanks for the replies.
I'm gonna respond mainly in general because no theists have replied to argue with me. I will put forward my view on the meaning of life issue.

I posed the question because it seemed to me that just because there is another conscious actor in existence and life is infinite shouldn't make a difference in how important/meaningful life is. The term "meaning" carries with it a little baggage in that if something "means" something, it should "mean" something to someone.

So I might say that my life has meaning for me and people who know me for a finite amount of time (until I am forgotten and all trace of my former existence is eradicated).

I think, like the first cause argument, that placing "God" above us to give some sort of meaning to life is just arbitrary...e.g. the question "Why does anything exist?" is still not answered.."What is the meaning of existence?" is still not answered. God assigns meaning to us but what assigns meaning to God? Himself? Then we can assign meaning to ourselves can we not?

Jamie_L: It doesn't really have any bearing on whether or not God exists, but it is related to the existence of God argument because when arguing with a theist they say, "But life can't have no meaning!!! Therefor God!! HAHA!!"

K: My position is really neutral with respect to the question of life having "meaning". I think it is more of a word game than anything else. What I object to is theists saying that if God exists there is meaning and if God doesn't exist there is none. I say either in both cases there is no meaning or in both cases there is.


Note: Ack!! when I say "life" I really mean "existence", so don't get pedantic on me pls.

Scrambles

Philosoft

I don't follow. What purposes do these animals gain by the absence of gods?

<strong> You are conflating 'purpose' and 'meaning.' A god may create sentient beings for the purpose of conducting some cosmic experiment centered on emotional suffering. Does that give our lives meaning to us? Does your life mean anything more to you because a god has a purpose in its own mind, however heinous?

That brings up a curious point. Why are 'purpose' and 'meaning' always centered on humanity? Suppose you were to be privy to the purpose of living beings sometime after your own adulthood. Suppose further, the purpose of life is to evolve woodchucks. What then? Sure, life has a purpose, but not all beings have discrete purposes. Does any individual's life carry more meaning because there is a purpose for life in general?

Ojuice5001

I do think of rodents as having a place on earth nearly equal to that of primates (humans). Not woodchucks so much as the more ubitiquous animals like squirrels and mice. And I would say my life is more purposeful if it was deliberatly designed to benefit mice, than if I am the outcome of unintelligent forces.

None; I'm saying that if humans and warm-blooded animals are all there is, there is less purpose in the universe.

Yes, I can honestly say I would rather be used for a god's purposes than have the same things happen to me for no reason. Purpose should not be an oddity in the universe, and thanks to the gods, it isn't.

[ October 01, 2002: Message edited by: Ojuice5001 ]</p>