SLD

excreationist:

The source I read said 10^100 universes. I think it depends on the average number of particle quantum interactions per second. Using 10^80 as the number of particles in the universe (which I was taught in physics years ago) and assuming an average of one particle interaction per second than I come up with 4.8 x 10^97 universes in a 15 billion year universe. That does assume that the universe only splits two ways per interaction though, and the more interactions per second the more universes.

The 10^50,000 number I posted was a bit hasty. What I meant to say was 10^-50,000 - an infinitessimal probability for all of the quantum particles interacting perfectly so that a person could take several steps on water without sinking. Although, for the life of me, I can't remember where I read or heard that and am not sure if that is correct. Probably on some internet discussion board on Jesus's miracles or so.

BTW, tell us about your conversion from creationism. I posted that topic on talk.origins last November to elicit responses from ex fundamentalists/creationists to see what it was that converted them. I had quite a few responses, and the thread ended up being the "post of the month" for November.

SLD

excreationist

That's only about 10^20 universes for each particle in our universe....

An average of only *one* particle interaction throughout the entire universe, each second?
Well I'll do the working out again... let's assume that the universes only split in two every second. (so after 2 seconds there are 4 parallel universe, then 8, then 16, etc.)
Now, to work out the number of seconds in 15 billion years:
= 15,000,000,000 x 60 x 60 x 24 = 1.296 x 10^15.
To work out the number of universes =
2 ^ (number of splits) = 2 ^ (number of seconds) = 2 ^ (1.296 x 10^15) or 2 ^ 1,296,000,000,000,000.
log(base10) 2 ~= 0.301
so that is 10 ^ (0.301 x 1,296,000,000,000,000)
~= 10 ^ 3,901,348,743,805,196 universes.
And remember that on average, for each second, there is only ONE particle in the entire universe which has an indeterminate state (or something) which causes the universe to split into two alternatives.

I think it is a better estimate of the number of universes involved in the MWI than 10^100, but it is still far too small.

Well I created a web site, called "Dirt or Slime" at the start of my time at university. I was a creationist, but I wanted to be sure I was right, no matter how depressing the truth actually was. Anyway, the author of the book "Leaving the Fold - Testimonies of Former Fundamentalists", Ed Babinski, emailed me after visiting my site and he ended up sending me a parcel that had a lot of information about the Green River formation as well as a copy of his little magazine "Cretinism or Evilution". I read lots of books about biology, creationism and anti-creationism and was on the fence between atheism and creationism for a few days and then I decided that evolution and an old earth made the most sense. My main reasoning was that the Green River formation seemed to be more than a few thousand years old and therefore the literal interpretation of the Bible was wrong. And if the Bible can't be taken literally in places where it seems literal (e.g. Exodus 20:11, 31:17) then God is pretty incompetent and we can't be sure that much of the Gospel is literal either.

SLD

You know, you're math is right. You'd think someone like me with a degree in mathematics could figure that out, Duhhhh. I'm not sure how the 10^100 number was calculated, but its source is from a physicist named Bryce S. Dewitt in a 1973 entitled "The many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics." I don't have that book, just another that indicates that as the souce. Perhaps someone more versed in QM on this board knows how he got this figure.

In any event, I thought more about this how thread last night and realized what might be a serious flaw in my original reasoning. If God collapses the wave function in such a way as to "control" the universe, then there is no such thing as Quantum Mechanics, because the universe is then completely deterministic. In a classical universe, an omniscient creator, wanting to ensure the outcome of a specific event could set initial conditions in the universe such that that event would be inevitable. QM of course does not allow for this - so then why, if you're God, have QM at all?

I suppose God could put it in there merely to ocassionally interfere with the progress of the universe, i.e. for the most part God lets the wave functions collapse randomly and the universe humms along until he decides that not enough of us are ordering the chicken tetrazini.

Anybody else want to jump in here?

SLD

ohh, and BTW excreationist, I enjoyed your conversion story, so I reposted my Talk.origins questions in the E-C forum on this board. Hope to see you there.