Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Deputy42 · 02-14-2002, 11:05 AM

brighid-

i am not trying to repress you, the arguments i posited were meant only to shed light the logical nature of ancient cultural aspects.

the "freaky situations" are as follows. the problem with mandating equality is the need for people quantify and measure progress. projects like afirmative action are examples of this. as soon as you attempt to quantify people, who defy such attempts, you treat them as means to an end.

additionally, whether want to admit it or not, you require some type of end state scheme. "men and women need to have the same average incomes" "black enrollment at college needs to be equal to black population percentage of a given sample" and other bullshit maxims.

the problem here again is not allowing for individual differences between and among different "races" and "sexes". the unexpected consequence of such redistributive and restorative practices is that in order to implement your agenda you need to embrace that which you wish to destroy. this is the treatment and view of people as "black" and "white" and "male" and "female". your attempts to forcibly implement equality only serve to further the pernicious practices you wish to destroy.

being a young white male i know i will receive no sympathy, but i will testafy here regardless. my parents did not pay for me to goto school, i pay for it myself while working over the summer. every year i need to pay the university 14000 dollars. because of this need, i got a cdl and drove a truck so that i could make enough money to pay for school. this is not enough however and i rely on financial aid to pay the rest.

there are many scholarships for minorities and women that only require that they be that....namely a woman or a minority. the prospects are rather grim for us lowly white males. this is what i mean by the desire for equality lead to inequality.

Deputy42 · 02-14-2002, 11:12 AM

i'm not going to tell you what gender roles should be for man reasons mentioned above.

certainly you know truths that you would not publicly proclaim. there are two kinds of truth: truth that helps and truth that hurts. you should know this.

bonduca · 02-14-2002, 11:17 AM

Quote:

being a young white male i know i will receive no sympathy, but i will testafy here regardless. my parents did not pay for me to goto school, i pay for it myself while working over the summer. every year i need to pay the university 14000 dollars. because of this need, i got a cdl and drove a truck so that i could make enough money to pay for school. this is not enough however and i rely on financial aid to pay the rest.

I am still paying for my education, and will be doing so for a great many years to come. I am also working a full-time job and paying off the last of the deep debts my ex was kind enough to leave me saddled with. I am not receiving grants or scholarships and am not eligible for any financial aid beyond a loan. May I point out that the number of women attending college on a football scholarship must be somewhat low in comparison to men?

Surely you do not mean to imply that by merely working to pay for the education you are fortunate enough to have access to that you are being discriminated against in some way?

[ February 14, 2002: Message edited by: bonduca ]</p>

Deputy42 · 02-14-2002, 11:20 AM

how many scholarships are out there expressly for white men? no requirements other than being white and male.....i think such a scholarship would be touted as racsist, yet scholarships such as this exist for women and minoritites....equality?

bonduca · 02-14-2002, 11:21 AM

How many women are attending college on a football scholarship?

Deputy42 · 02-14-2002, 11:23 AM

i assume if a woman could compete at that level, a scholarship would be forthcoming. its an interesting subject, because in sports in some sense is more pure than everyday society.

bonduca · 02-14-2002, 11:25 AM

So not many, eh?

I think you have not had much experience with sports. I think it is a rather accurate representation of many aspects of human society.

Deputy42 · 02-14-2002, 11:25 AM

are you saying football players don't work for their scholarship??? to compare a merit based scholarship like that and scholarships based on nothing more than race or gender is foolhardy.

bonduca · 02-14-2002, 11:27 AM

Given that the requirements are such that a woman is unlikely to qualify, I think it favors men over women, don't you? Are you saying that women and minorities don't work for THEIR scholarships? Shame on you, dear.

So what do you think woman's role should be in modern society? I hope you will not disappoint me by saying "Plato" and running away again.

[ February 14, 2002: Message edited by: bonduca ]</p>

Deputy42 · 02-14-2002, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bonduca:
<strong>Given that the requirements are such that a woman is unlikely to qualify, I think it favors men over women, don't you? Are you saying that women and minorities don't work for THEIR scholarships? Shame on you, dear.

likewise no man is going to receive a scholarship for being a single mother. i am saying that a scholarship who's only requirement for acceptance is race or gender is not merit based. you don't need to work to become what you already are. race and gender like speech is a natural gift.
So what do you think woman's role should be in modern society? I hope you will not disappoint me by saying "Plato" and running away again.

i'm sorry you think i run from you, my wish was not to insult anyone's intellect here, i already made that mistake once. if you haven't read it then say so, if you have then you know what i'm talking about and little else needs to be said.
[ February 14, 2002: Message edited by: bonduca ]</strong>

a womans role is whatever she decides to make it, just like everyone else. your wish to draw me into such a debate is pointless.

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02-14-2002, 11:05 AM	#61
Deputy42 Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: pittsburgh Posts: 99	brighid- i am not trying to repress you, the arguments i posited were meant only to shed light the logical nature of ancient cultural aspects. the "freaky situations" are as follows. the problem with mandating equality is the need for people quantify and measure progress. projects like afirmative action are examples of this. as soon as you attempt to quantify people, who defy such attempts, you treat them as means to an end. additionally, whether want to admit it or not, you require some type of end state scheme. "men and women need to have the same average incomes" "black enrollment at college needs to be equal to black population percentage of a given sample" and other bullshit maxims. the problem here again is not allowing for individual differences between and among different "races" and "sexes". the unexpected consequence of such redistributive and restorative practices is that in order to implement your agenda you need to embrace that which you wish to destroy. this is the treatment and view of people as "black" and "white" and "male" and "female". your attempts to forcibly implement equality only serve to further the pernicious practices you wish to destroy. being a young white male i know i will receive no sympathy, but i will testafy here regardless. my parents did not pay for me to goto school, i pay for it myself while working over the summer. every year i need to pay the university 14000 dollars. because of this need, i got a cdl and drove a truck so that i could make enough money to pay for school. this is not enough however and i rely on financial aid to pay the rest. there are many scholarships for minorities and women that only require that they be that....namely a woman or a minority. the prospects are rather grim for us lowly white males. this is what i mean by the desire for equality lead to inequality.

02-14-2002, 11:12 AM	#62
Deputy42 Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: pittsburgh Posts: 99	i'm not going to tell you what gender roles should be for man reasons mentioned above. certainly you know truths that you would not publicly proclaim. there are two kinds of truth: truth that helps and truth that hurts. you should know this.

02-14-2002, 11:20 AM	#64
Deputy42 Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: pittsburgh Posts: 99	how many scholarships are out there expressly for white men? no requirements other than being white and male.....i think such a scholarship would be touted as racsist, yet scholarships such as this exist for women and minoritites....equality?

02-14-2002, 11:21 AM	#65
bonduca Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: . Posts: 1,653	How many women are attending college on a football scholarship?

02-14-2002, 11:23 AM	#66
Deputy42 Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: pittsburgh Posts: 99	i assume if a woman could compete at that level, a scholarship would be forthcoming. its an interesting subject, because in sports in some sense is more pure than everyday society.

02-14-2002, 11:25 AM	#67
bonduca Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: . Posts: 1,653	So not many, eh? I think you have not had much experience with sports. I think it is a rather accurate representation of many aspects of human society.

02-14-2002, 11:27 AM	#69
bonduca Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: . Posts: 1,653	Given that the requirements are such that a woman is unlikely to qualify, I think it favors men over women, don't you? Are you saying that women and minorities don't work for THEIR scholarships? Shame on you, dear. So what do you think woman's role should be in modern society? I hope you will not disappoint me by saying "Plato" and running away again. [ February 14, 2002: Message edited by: bonduca ]</p>

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