Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Yggdrasill · 10-10-2002, 10:59 AM

Inspired by a post in EoG I considered this question, and I came to the conclusion that the only thing (that I could think of) that could lead to me participating in genocide is being ordered by a god that I knew existed, and that I knew would send me to hell for a very long time if I did not participate. What are your thoughts on this? Are there any justifiable non-supernatural reasons for genocide at all?

brighid · 10-10-2002, 11:08 AM

Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political or cultural group for nothing more then being a member of one of those groups.

How can one justify murdering innocent people, including infants and children for committing no crime, except being different in appearance, religion, belief or ethnic/cultural background?

Personally, I don�t care if there was a God who was factually proven to exist and told ME I would rot in hell forever if I did not take up arms against my neighbor for ANY reason. How could I actually live a life on Earth or in Heaven with any sort of happiness or enjoyment knowing I murdered innocent people? To me, that would be Hell on Earth.

Brighid

Yggdrasill · 10-10-2002, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Brighid: Personally, I don�t care if there was a God who was factually proven to exist and told ME I would rot in hell forever if I did not take up arms against my neighbor for ANY reason. How could I actually live a life on Earth or in Heaven with any sort of happiness or enjoyment knowing I murdered innocent people? To me, that would be Hell on Earth.

At first I came to that conclusion as well, but then it struck me how long eternity is... And it wouldn't matter to me, if I ceased to be after my death. And if I went to heaven I don't think I would have any option except being happy. That is something I probably have to know as well.

[ October 10, 2002: Message edited by: Yggdrasill ]</p>

DarkDruid · 10-10-2002, 04:30 PM

If some powerful being commanded me to kill a bunch of people, supposedly said powerful being could rearrange my moral and emotional inhibitions and not make me opposed to it at all.

As far as a non-religious reason for genocide, sure. There are tons. If you know that one group is inherintly evil or destructive, and they will forever be evil and destructive and they are threatening you, I could see myself destroying everything of them just so they wouldn't do it again (or so their kids couldn't be raised with a revenge prophecy over their heads). This would all be in very dire conditions, of course, and this is a bit of a streach as it is, but there's your reason.

elwoodblues · 10-10-2002, 05:13 PM

This is not really a question that you can address without being put in the position.

I'm in the middle of a class centering on the holocaust; it is very intense. And if it was just god bullying me, I'd sure as hell tell him to bugger off. But if I had a wife and family to worry about, people who the SS might round up if I don't toe the line... I know what I hope I'd do. I'm just not wholly sure I'd do it.

99Percent · 10-10-2002, 07:45 PM

The only way I could justify genocide is if there were no form of communication with the tribe being exterminated and that tribe or group was causing harm and destruction.

However I doubt that would ever be the case with fellow human beings.

tronvillain · 10-11-2002, 12:00 PM

Well, I can think of plenty of reasons that would justify my participation in genocide to me, but that is a different matter entirely from justifying my partipation in genocide to other people. Potential reasons include protecting my life and the lives of my family and friends, but also less "noble" reaons like money and power. *shrugs* I would probably be willing to do a lot of "terrible" things for enough money and power.

JerryM · 10-11-2002, 12:15 PM

One could justify genocide only if the definition is taken to mean literally the killing off or extermination of a gene pool, and we include pathogenic bacteria or viruses in our new definition. I'm thinking, for example, about smallpox. If all traces of smallpox virus had been destroyed, we might not have to worry about terrorists using it as a biological weapon. So we could say that genocide of smallpox may be beneficial. But outside of this non-standard definition of genocide, I don't see any way to consider it ethical.

10-10-2002, 10:59 AM	#1
Yggdrasill Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Kongsberg, Norway. I'm a: Skeptic Posts: 7,597	For what reasons (if any) would you participate in genocide? Inspired by a post in EoG I considered this question, and I came to the conclusion that the only thing (that I could think of) that could lead to me participating in genocide is being ordered by a god that I knew existed, and that I knew would send me to hell for a very long time if I did not participate. What are your thoughts on this? Are there any justifiable non-supernatural reasons for genocide at all?

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10-10-2002, 11:08 AM	#2
brighid Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: somewhere in the known Universe Posts: 6,993	Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political or cultural group for nothing more then being a member of one of those groups. How can one justify murdering innocent people, including infants and children for committing no crime, except being different in appearance, religion, belief or ethnic/cultural background? Personally, I don�t care if there was a God who was factually proven to exist and told ME I would rot in hell forever if I did not take up arms against my neighbor for ANY reason. How could I actually live a life on Earth or in Heaven with any sort of happiness or enjoyment knowing I murdered innocent people? To me, that would be Hell on Earth. Brighid

10-10-2002, 04:30 PM	#4
DarkDruid Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 131	If some powerful being commanded me to kill a bunch of people, supposedly said powerful being could rearrange my moral and emotional inhibitions and not make me opposed to it at all. As far as a non-religious reason for genocide, sure. There are tons. If you know that one group is inherintly evil or destructive, and they will forever be evil and destructive and they are threatening you, I could see myself destroying everything of them just so they wouldn't do it again (or so their kids couldn't be raised with a revenge prophecy over their heads). This would all be in very dire conditions, of course, and this is a bit of a streach as it is, but there's your reason.

10-10-2002, 05:13 PM	#5
elwoodblues Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Dunmanifestin, Discworld Posts: 4,836	This is not really a question that you can address without being put in the position. I'm in the middle of a class centering on the holocaust; it is very intense. And if it was just god bullying me, I'd sure as hell tell him to bugger off. But if I had a wife and family to worry about, people who the SS might round up if I don't toe the line... I know what I hope I'd do. I'm just not wholly sure I'd do it.

10-10-2002, 07:45 PM	#6
99Percent Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: my mind Posts: 5,996	The only way I could justify genocide is if there were no form of communication with the tribe being exterminated and that tribe or group was causing harm and destruction. However I doubt that would ever be the case with fellow human beings.

10-11-2002, 12:00 PM	#7
tronvillain Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 5,658	Well, I can think of plenty of reasons that would justify my participation in genocide to me, but that is a different matter entirely from justifying my partipation in genocide to other people. Potential reasons include protecting my life and the lives of my family and friends, but also less "noble" reaons like money and power. shrugs I would probably be willing to do a lot of "terrible" things for enough money and power.

10-11-2002, 12:15 PM	#8
JerryM Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO. Posts: 1,100	One could justify genocide only if the definition is taken to mean literally the killing off or extermination of a gene pool, and we include pathogenic bacteria or viruses in our new definition. I'm thinking, for example, about smallpox. If all traces of smallpox virus had been destroyed, we might not have to worry about terrorists using it as a biological weapon. So we could say that genocide of smallpox may be beneficial. But outside of this non-standard definition of genocide, I don't see any way to consider it ethical.

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