dk

The point is not everyone runs from fear, most people learn to balance fear with reason. In war a routed army gets annihilated, making their worst fears real.

Mad Kally

No shit.

Well gee thanks for telling me something new. Why are you trying to explain this to me? You should be using all your neurological expertise telling Paul2 about it.

P.S. Kally: "All the soldiers would have been running for their lives."

This is called an exaggeration. Would you like me to explain that to you?

excreationist

I think sometimes when people have to make a public speech (apparently the first or second biggest fear - according to Seinfeld) their fear can cause the "fight or flight" reflex... so their heart rate increases and their muscles get more energy - to fight against or free from the threat. But in public speaking they have to stand still and their response is just shown by shaking and a faster heart-beat, etc. When the fight or flight fear response is supressed it's called stress (something like that).
And sometimes people can work in fear for long periods of time... in the fight or flight response resources are taken away from things that aren't important in the short-term - like your immune system (I think) - but they are important in the long-term... so stress can affect your health over time.
Anyway, I agree with you... public speakers, etc, tend to suppress their desire to flee.

Mad Kally

I had to give a scientific speech on parthenogenesis in a huge class. The professor sat there making marks on his clipboard while I was talking. My mouth dried up, my heart was pounding, and I had to keep my hands on the table in front of me to keep from showing how much I was shaking. Then, there was a question and answer session afterwards. Talk about suppressing flight! I barely understood my own subject. lol

I was amazed that I got a good score. I felt like a mess during the entire ordeal. I'm pretty sure the rest of the class had as much adrenalin pumping through their bodies. Some of them showed it way more than I did. No one backed out. It was way too important a part of our grades.

sweep

not just an urge to run away from the situation, but a means to galvanise you for action: keeping your brain primed with nutrients, helping the blood to flow faster, and generally making you much more efficient.

As you said, you barely understood your own subject. This is almost as though you're on automatic pilot, and nothing is going to distract you from the matter at hand.

With regards to balancing fear with reason (er... not exactly sure what that means), the way I interpret it is the ability of an organism to adapt in a novel environment. In Kally's instance, I don't think she was used to giving speeches, either that or the pressure to do well was in effect, so her physical response was a way of preparing her for the task at hand.

well done Kally, I think you are brave.

dk

People being rational creatures aren't ruled by flight/fight instincts/emotions(passions), but can control themselves. A person in control of themselves has a hightened sense of self, or a hightened consciousness.

I don't want to confuse power and consciousness. For example a rapist or wife beater is out of control because they give themselves over to their emotions/feelings/passions becoming degenerates.

On the other hand in Kally's presentation she confronted her fear/emotions/feelings/passions, and next time she speaks publically will likely be little less anxious and more in control, precisely becasue she has reached a higher state of consciousness. She has become a more confident person for overcoming herself with reason harnessed to purpose.

This is why consciousness defies definition, and animal consciousness doesn't resemble human consciousness. Animals are never viscious or inspired in the same sense as people, though admittedly a degenerate does become animal like.

Mad Kally

Thank you sweep. It was the first time I had given a speech. It being a science subject from scientific sources only didn't help either. Now I know why people lecturing have a glass of water sitting near by. My mouth felt like cotton. But I did it and I think I'm brave too.

Thanks again,
Kally

dk, I don't think I could ever be that frightened a second time. I didn't have a clue about what would happen. I'm not shy and I talk to almost everyone. I was surprised (to say the least) at my reaction. I honestly thought I would sail right through it. WRONG!

ekorczynski

Has anyone else read "The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind" by Julian Jaynes? I find it to be a very compelling theory that explains much of human "nature" and answers many otherwise seemingly unanswerable questions relating to "God", "religions", "society", and "control".

Also, there been some excellent work recently:
(http://www.vivaconsulting.com/education/hijacking.html) (plus the work of Dr. Salk) that supports the contention that "consciousness" (however defined) is not nearly as important as we might consciously think it to be.

Choose no beliefs,
Enjoy Transcendent experience,
edo

Mad Kally

ekorczynski,

Thank you for the very interesting article.

Kally

Smilin

I disagree,
If you ever find yourself in a situation where you are about to drown,,,, your instincts WILL take over.

If you find a wild grizzly bear charging at you, you WON'T remain rational.

And ask anyone who's served in the military, and who has been faced with 'kill or be killed'. I guarantee you from personal experience you won't think about your actions, you'll just act.

As far as acting out of emotions, do you really believe that people don't act out of strictly emotions at times?