Beoran

Well, I see your point, but what about art and games? They are in essence the use of fantasy and imagination to "get by". Science and knowledge lead to what is useful, but art and fantasy lead to what is pleasurable. I think we need both.

Keith Russell

Greetings:

Not all art is escapist fiction.

Some (the best?) art shows us aspects of 'reality' that taken out of context and spotlit, can motivate us to change things that otherwise might go unnoticed, and thus remain unchanged.

Fantasies can motivate us to try to realize the fantasy.

(What is the blueprint of a house, if not a fantasy that guides the realization?)

Keith.

Belem

I wonder what is more important :

To get Happiness or to know the Truth?

At the moment, I only see that most of the people prefer to pursue happiness instead of knowing the Truth.
The mechanism that they use to avoid self- delusion is to pretend that what makes them happy is true.

The best example is religion.

That´s why I have decided to avoid giving rational explanations to people who find comfort in God and paranormal stuff.

At the end, I only wish people to be happy. Of course, assuming that their beliefs don´t harm anybody.

Belem

Keith Russell

Belem:

What does it mean 'to wish people to be happy'?

When I have wishes, it means that I am going to work to realize the wish. Are you working to make others happy? If you aren't, or if you believe that it's not even possible for everyone to be happy, why wish it?

Keith.

Beoran

Yes, Keith, art can also be in the way you describe it, though it sounds quite utilitarian to me. I holt that both your and my vision on ffantasy and art are equally valuable.

I consider something to be good if it empowers and betters life, and the will to life. Realisation of dreams, concretisaion of plans, and improvement of the situation of others and yourself are all good things, because they empower abnd better life.

However,

However, I think basing myself upon Nietzsche that one of the greatest threats to the will to life is the "spirit of gravity". In essence, a too serious and too sad attitude detracts from life. Far preferable is the "spirit of merriment". merriment, bliss, happiness are all positive feelings that strengthen life.

Even if an artwork, game or a fantasy does nothing but evoke positive feelings, then still I call it good for these reasons. Yes, we should also work to improve the world. But, and I quote Nietzsche: "What destroys a man more quickly than to work and think ... without pleasure, as a mere automaton of duty?"

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. As for escapism, that's going too far in the other direction. The middle road of enjoying pleasure, fantasies and games, but not forgetting your duties is most apppropriate, IMO.

Acinom

What you say about Nietzsche also sounds very Utilitarian to me. But I don't think it's quite right to say that "one of the greatest threats to the will to life is the "spirit of gravity" ", or that "far preferable is the "spirit of merriment". merriment, bliss, happiness are all positive feelings that strengthen life."

That's like telling someone who's contemplative to C'mon! Lighten up a bit! when they probably have good reason to be introspective and bound to duty. It just sounds a little patronizing, don't you think?

Anyway, I'm not very familiar with Nietzsche. Wasn't he a pretty depressing fellow himself?

But to get back to the topic at hand. I generally believe that happiness has a strong link to truth. But what is the definition of happiness anyway? Contentment? Rapture? Can someone who is, say, working in the diamond mines of South Africa (nod to an ongoing thread in Miscellaneous) ever be really happy?

Beoran

Well, Acinom, it was certainly not my intention to sound patronizing. Most certainly, it can be good to be contemplative and introspectivce, and bound to duty. However, and that is the key, even when being contemplative, introspective and bound to duty, one can be merry and joyful. If have no incentive to fulfill your duty, how will you then fulfill it? The greatest incentive to fulfill one's duty is to find joy in fulfilling it. And, if one finds joy in one's duty, then how can one not be merry in fulfilling it? That is how I understand the "spirit of merriment".

Yes, Nietzsche seemed rather depressed in his personal life. Mainly because of his bad relationship with his sister, and, at the end of his life, with his faltering health. However, in his work, we can easily see the vigour, merriment and joy with which he wrote it. Although I disagree with his Ubermench ideal, I cannot fail to admire the vitality that his works overflow with.

As for happiness, I cannot define it, but I know it when I feel it, or when I see it in others. There are many different origins to happiness. Archievement, or imagination, truth or fantasy, love, or a simple cup of tea. All can lead to happiness in various degrees.

Belem

Just to wish the best for everybody. I mean, to have a feeling.

Oh, come on. Don´t tell me that you never had a wish towards your loved ones unless you have to work for it.

I mean, I realised that it is pointless to try to convince other people that they are wrong, if their beliefs make them happy. THink on God.

Specially sick people, terminal-ill people.
In these cases, I think that happiness is more important than truth.

Belem

[ December 21, 2002: Message edited by: BELEM ]</p>