Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Jayman · 06-04-2003, 07:38 PM

I came across an add for this book in Bible Review and was wondering if anybody has read this book. If so, what did you think of it?

A brief synopsis is provided on his website:

Quote:

In his work The Roman Origin of Christianity Joseph Atwill demonstrates that the Roman Emperor Titus Flavius created Christianity to replace the Jewish Messianic movement that waged war against the Empire with a pacifistic, pro-Roman religion. Titus also designed the story line of Jesus' ministry in the New Testament as a satire of his military campaign through Judea so that posterity would learn that he had invented Christianity and recognize his genius.

Though the New Testament had always been seen as a religious document it is actually a monument to the vanity of a Caesar. One that has finally been discovered.

This seemingly fantastic thesis is supported by such strong evidence that it will soon be a central part of the debate over Christian origins. The Roman Origin of Christianity will change our understanding of history, morality and ourselves. It is truly a revolutionary thesis.

You can also read the first 2 chapters at his website: www.joeatwill.com

SLD · 06-04-2003, 08:06 PM

Well, I haven't read the book, and I'm not likely to, but to say the least, I'm skeptical.

How would he explain Tacitus's history of Christianity in Nero's reign? Was that just made up? Why would the empire be persecuting Christianity just a few decades later? How does it explain Paul's letters which are generally considered to have been written in the 50's - before Titus's participation in the Judea Campaign?

Why then would Christianity have such serious flaws in it? You'd think he'd try to do a better job rather than creating four gospels with various stories in it. Nor did it do much to quell religious turbulence in Judea which went on for decades after him. In fact, it didn't really convert many Jews.

SLD

Geoff Hudson · 06-05-2003, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jayman
I came across an add for this book in Bible Review and was wondering if anybody has read this book. If so, what did you think of it?

A brief synopsis is provided on his website:

You can also read the first 2 chapters at his website: www.joeatwill.com

Just another "cart before the horse".

Geoff

Radcliffe Emerson · 06-05-2003, 08:33 AM

I would be interested in also seeing what kind of proof there is. I saw another theory like this once where the author just started making the claims, saying there was evidence, but never actually produced the evidence.

Xixax · 06-06-2003, 01:37 PM

I read the first two chapters. While interesting reading, I would want to look into the sources quoted on my own to feel better taking much of it at face value.

I wouldn't embrace this yet, but I also wouldn't outright dismiss this either. ( The hellenization of Christianity has been evident for a very long time, but that's assuming it's roots were of hebrew origin to start with )

lpetrich · 06-07-2003, 10:24 AM

There's been some argument over the Tacitus evidence, but Pliny the Younger and Lucian of Samosata seem to me to be stronger evidence that Xtianity had existed in the second century.

keyser_soze · 06-07-2003, 10:22 PM

Sensationalist supposition, unsupported by documentation. Uck. I read the first two chapters wondering how he got from a to b by way of z..... Not worth the money by a long shot.

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06-04-2003, 08:06 PM	#2
SLD Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Birmingham, Alabama Posts: 4,109	Well, I haven't read the book, and I'm not likely to, but to say the least, I'm skeptical. How would he explain Tacitus's history of Christianity in Nero's reign? Was that just made up? Why would the empire be persecuting Christianity just a few decades later? How does it explain Paul's letters which are generally considered to have been written in the 50's - before Titus's participation in the Judea Campaign? Why then would Christianity have such serious flaws in it? You'd think he'd try to do a better job rather than creating four gospels with various stories in it. Nor did it do much to quell religious turbulence in Judea which went on for decades after him. In fact, it didn't really convert many Jews. SLD

06-05-2003, 08:33 AM	#4
Radcliffe Emerson Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: the dark side of Mars Posts: 1,309	I would be interested in also seeing what kind of proof there is. I saw another theory like this once where the author just started making the claims, saying there was evidence, but never actually produced the evidence.

06-06-2003, 01:37 PM	#5
Xixax Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 2,101	I read the first two chapters. While interesting reading, I would want to look into the sources quoted on my own to feel better taking much of it at face value. I wouldn't embrace this yet, but I also wouldn't outright dismiss this either. ( The hellenization of Christianity has been evident for a very long time, but that's assuming it's roots were of hebrew origin to start with )

06-07-2003, 10:24 AM	#6
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	There's been some argument over the Tacitus evidence, but Pliny the Younger and Lucian of Samosata seem to me to be stronger evidence that Xtianity had existed in the second century.

06-07-2003, 10:22 PM	#7
keyser_soze Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: god's judge (pariah) Posts: 1,281	Sensationalist supposition, unsupported by documentation. Uck. I read the first two chapters wondering how he got from a to b by way of z..... Not worth the money by a long shot.

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