LinuxPup

The property of rationality is the ability to reason.

My question is this, do you believe your cognitive faculties are providing you with true beliefs? According to the materialistic paradigm, our bodies, including our brain, is a product of time, matter, energy, and chance. Again, according to this worldview, there was no Intelligent Being who formed us, but rather we are the result of non-personal, materialistic causes.

Charles Darwin said, "With me, the horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man's mind, which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would any one trust in the convictions of a monkey's mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?"

My argument goes as follows:

Let's say a few of us go on a trip to what we think is Niagara Falls. We are heading down the road, and we look at a mountainside, and read upon it, in huge letters formed out of white flowers upon a dark soil background, "NIAGARA FALLS, 10 MILES". Well, then we get excited after our long, grueling trip, because we're finally getting close. But then our tour guide tells us, "Oh, no. That's a strange phenomenon, in where the flowers happened to grow and bloom in just that pattern, to make that sign. No one put that there, it just happened by itself." Let's say he's telling the truth. If he is, do we have any reason to believe we are anywhere near Niagara Falls? No, we don't. That sign gives us no useful information whatsoever, it just appears to. Likewise, if our brains are just products of blind chance, why should we trust anything they tell us? I would argue that the atheist, has no reason to trust his own brain, and that atheism is then completely irrational. On the other hand, the theist believes that his mind was created by an Intelligent Being, and thus there is a reasoning power behind it.

Goliath

LinuxPup,

Atheists, in general, do not assert this. Atheism is not a worldview. Atheism is nothing more than a lack of belief that any particular god exists.

So, what are you going to do with that straw man, now that you're done stuffing it?

Sincerely,

Goliath

LinuxPup

Actually this is quite simply untrue. The dictionary defines "worldview" as:

"A collection of beliefs about life and the universe held by an individual or a group."

Therefore, if you believe that God does not exist, that's part of your worldview. Everyone has one, whether you like or not, or acknowledge it or not.

Logically speaking, whenever you deny something, you're making a positive statement as well. If you deny the existance of God, you're making the positive claim that atheism is true.

So now can you answer my question? Why should you believe your cognitive faculties? There is no strawman intended here.

Curious Mind

You ask how we know that our faculties are providing us with "truth". Yet, to my knowledge, truth is defined by the very things that our senses perceive. I don't see how this helps a belief in God though, unless you think God "programmed" people to have some kind of inate yearning for Him/It... (some theists believe this)

Principia

But it is still a belief, right? The belief itself does not preclude the possibility that your brain was actually created anyway by random, meaningless processes. What makes you think that you can trust how your mind rationalizes the existence of an Intelligent Being?

SC

Goliath

LinuxPup,

You have no idea what atheism means. Atheism is not a belief, it is a LACK of belief.

I do not deny your god. I cannot deny that which I do not believe to exist.

Again, atheism is not a belief. It is nothing more than a lack of belief that any gods exist whatsoever.

Sincerely,

Goliath

LinuxPup

This is obviously a false definition. If it were, then the statement "antarctica doesn't exist" used to be true, until we discovered it. Something isn't true simply because we sense it.

The quote you gave me from my original post answers your question. I believe my (and your) brain can rationalize things in general, that is my brain can provide me with true beliefs (i.e. "I'm typing", "I'm sitting down", "I'm a human", etc.) because it was created by an Intelligent Being. My argument doesn't prove atheism is false, but rather it merely means that to believe atheism is true is completely irrational and must therefore be rejected.

LinuxPup

Goliath:

Atheism is not a belief? Then let me ask you this: do you believe God exists? If you say no, then you're not an atheist, if you yes, then atheism is a belief. Atheism is indeed a belief, and a worldview. And just like atheists demand proof from the theist, I demand proof from the atheist. I'm skeptical towards atheism... theists can be skeptics too

Hans

Rather selectively skeptical, though.

Belief is the product of information. If I feel and see a rock in my hand I will, without any choice, believe there is a rock in my hand.

If I see evidence there is a god I will have no chioce but to believe there is a god. An atheist has seen no evidence for a god, therefore, does not believe in a god.

My world view is comprised of the information I have received. Skepticism is the only means by which one can determine if one's world view reflects the real world. I challenge you then to apply some skepticism to your theistic beliefs and see if they hold up. Mine do!!

Principia

Ah, but what makes you completely sure that your mind is not actually created by random meaningless processes? Maybe that is what your "Intelligent Being" actually is: meaningless and random. Mere belief alone does not preclude the possibility. So, I ask again, what is the positive evidence that the human mind is a direct result of an Intelligent Being, without resorting to mere assertions of faith?

In the sense that your argument thus far works only on 'belief' and 'faith' suggests that your worldview is irrational and must therefore be rejected.

SC