Buffman

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...,6857279.story

Religious schools use majority of vouchers

The Associated Press
Posted October 14, 2003

TALLAHASSEE -- The use of tax money at religious schools has mushroomed in the past year while an appeal court considers a lower court ruling that giving tax dollars to religious schools violates the Constitution.

Two-thirds of all private schools are religious, but about three-quarters of all schools using vouchers in Florida are religious. The Palm Beach Post said Sunday that 869 of the 1,158 private schools taking vouchers are religious schools.

They represent 48 different denominations, 97 percent of which are some denomination of Christianity, including 160 Catholic schools and 138 Baptist ones. Thirteen of the state's 38 Jewish schools, nine of the 11 Muslim schools and both of Florida's Hare Krishna schools get vouchers.

Circuit Judge Kevin Davey of Tallahassee ruled last year that tax-supported vouchers for religious schools violate the state constitution. But the schools were allowed to get voucher dollars during the appeal process.

Ron Meyer, the lead lawyer fighting against the vouchers, successfully argued that such spending violates the clause of the state constitution that prohibits the state from using tax dollars to aid any church, sect or religious denomination.

Voucher supporters say parents who want their children to attend religious schools pay tax dollars, too, and should be entitled to use that money how they want, something that was impossible before vouchers.

Gar

I guess you could say that this is because I'm pretty libertarian, but I don't really mind tax-aided vouchers going to religious schools. I always thought that helping the poor was one of the things that religion was actually good for.

I think its pretty selfish to take away the opportunity for a better education because you don't like that the school is religious. I'm no fan of religion, but I don't think that someone who goes to a religious school in order to get out of a poor public school will become any more religious than they were to begin with.

This is assuming that "tax-supported" vouchers means that the government pays extra in addition to what the kid's parents would pay in taxes. I think this is a good idea for low income families, but people who can afford it should not get extra money from govt just because they want to send their kid to a religious school.

Buffman

Gar

I think its pretty selfish to take away the opportunity for a better education because you don't like that the school is religious.

What verifiable evidence do you offer that it is a "better' education? Additionally, using your stated justification, I assume that you support the Bush Faith Based Initiatives.

Gar

Inner city public schools are atrocious. Its not possible to be any worse.

And no, I am vehemently against Bush's faith-based bullshit.

HeatherD

Then tax money should be used to correct the "atrocious" public schools. Tax money shouldn't be handed out to individuals so that they can leave the "atrocious" schools even worse off.

The problem is that public education isn't being funded enough. If we take some of that money away from the public system, so that a small percentage can get a "better" education, the ones "left behind" will get an even worse education.

If Bush really wanted to "Leave No Child Behind", then all public schools would be funded and administered using a federal minimum standards guideline. All students would get a proper and balanced education based on those guidelines. Any other educational requirements that the local community wanted to add would be paid for with local money. But at least all students would get a proper, if minimal, education. Too many public schools are failing their students and allowing a small number of them to "leave the sinking ship" isn't the answer.

If you are a parent and can afford a "better education" or you have religious reasons for not wanting your child in public school, too bad. There are plenty of things that the Federal government does with our tax dollars that we don't get to use in return.

My taxes also pay for the public education system and I don't even have any children. Maybe only people with children should pay an "education tax", those of us without children should get a tax break.

Buffman

Exactly what do you mean by "worse?"

http://boston.k12.ma.us/bps/bpsglance.asp

I always thought that helping the poor was one of the things that religion was actually good for.

Don't you find an inconguity between that statement and this one?

And no, I am vehemently against Bush's faith-based bullshit.

Worldtraveller

I don't know if this question belongs in this thread, or it should be in a separate one. But does someone have a link, or a good explanation of exactly how vouchers work?

From what I understand, if a parent wants their child to go to a private school, they get...what, a tax refund? Money directly from their local school district?
Does this mean that someone with several children gets more money? What about people who have NO children in the public school system, do they get tax refunds because they don't use the schools? This whole system makes no sense to me, even before I think about the fact that our government is essentially supporting religion here.....

Thanks in advance,
Lane

Buffman

http://www.aft.org/research/vouchers/

http://www.aft.org/research/vouchers...YTHS/Myths.htm

http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=11483

http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=5115

https://www.opportunityschools.org/home.asp

http://www.au.org/churchstate/cs11012.htm

http://www.aclufl.org/body_school_vo...main_page.html

(Extract)
Vouchers are government payments to private schools or parents to subsidize student attendance at nonpublic schools. Most private schools are church affiliated schools, and the effect of a voucher is to facilitate the abandonment of the public schools and sectarian education at public expense. The mission of parochial schools includes, as part of its educational process, training the next generation of adherents to a religious denomination. Though we are a richer and more diverse people because of the existence of parochial schools, the right to choose to send one's children to a church-affiliated school does not include the right to have the taxpayers fund that choice.
(End extract)

BibleBelted

Seems to me the right-wing push for school vouchers has an even more insidious purpose than just strengthening religion . . they actually want to destroy public education at worst, or privatize it to facilitate their pillage and plunder.

Buffman

BibleBelted

A very insightful statement.

Just as the Military-Industrial Complex sups at the taxpayer money trough during times of increased feelings of national insecurity, so too does the Politico-Industrial Relationship sup at the national treasury whenever one political party gains complete control of the government machinery. That's old news. What you suggest is the new news.

The Religio-Private Enterprise cabal have joined forces in order to tap into the taxpayer money trough of Education. It serves both the advocates of supernaturalism and the entrepreneurs of private enterprise education to claim that the Public School system is failing.

http://www.adprima.com/home.htm

(Extract)
Home schooling as an alternative to public or private school is here to stay. In addition, publicly funded vouchers for education have major implications for home schoolers as well as for traditional forms of education. Ultimately, courts will have to answer the question of whether parents who home school their children are eligible for publicly funded vouchers. I believe the Constitution is on the side of the home schoolers in this matter. The implications of all of this are staggering.
(End extract)

http://www-hoover.stanford.edu/publi.../002/hill.html

Finding current, accurate, total statistics at this next URL requires considerable effort. However, here are the Fall of 1999 stats:

http://www.ed.gov/about/offices/list...tatistics.html

If you have a company/organization that caters to the requirements of private education, would you not support anything that increases the economic welfare of your clients...while rubbing your hands together?

If your religious denomination can find a source of funding, especially if it is taxpayer and requires little if any accountability, that allows you to avoid depleting any of your own treasury which can now be used for direct religious growth projects, wouldn't you believe that your "prayers" had been answered? The real motivations are with the profits for your company or the growth of your religious dogma, not with the education of the students.