Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Abel Stable · 05-22-2003, 05:59 PM

From the LA Times:
Texas OKs Disputed Abortion Legislation
free registration, but if you don't have the time:

Quote:

HOUSTON -- Texas approved one of the nation's most sweeping abortion counseling laws Wednesday, requiring doctors, among other things, to warn women that abortion might lead to breast cancer.

That link, however, does not exist, according to the American Cancer Society and federal government researchers, and critics say the law is a thinly veiled attempt to intimidate, frighten and shame women who are seeking an abortion. Proponents say they are merely trying to give women as much information as possible, and argue that research into the alleged link between abortion and breast cancer remains inconclusive.
...

"They don't care what science says," said Claudia D. Stravato, chief executive of Planned Parenthood of Amarillo and the Texas Panhandle. "It's like talking to the Flat Earth Society."

The bill's author, state Rep. Frank Corte Jr., a San Antonio-area Republican, titled the bill the Women's Right to Know Act.

"This is an issue that many folks see as something we need to do," Corte said. "We think these are standards that should be set."
...

The Republican-controlled Texas Senate approved the bill Wednesday; the state House had previously passed it. Gov. Rick Perry's office said he "supports the concept," and he is expected to sign it into law.
...

In February, the National Cancer Institute � the federal government's cancer research organization � asked more than 100 of the world's experts to review more than 30 studies that have been conducted and attempt to resolve the issue. Their conclusion: Having an abortion "does not increase a woman's subsequent risk of developing breast cancer." The American Medical Assn. has not taken a formal position on the issue, but most large health-care organizations, including the American Cancer Society, agree with that conclusion.

"The American Cancer Society's reputation as a source of information for the public is just critical to our mission. We're not going to mislead people about this," said Mary Coyne, a board member of the society's Texas division. "We spend $100 million a year on research. We know what we're talking about. There is just no research that supports this claim."

Are the proponents of this bill just flat-out lying?? Are they completely ignorant? How does such obvious bullcrap get picked up? Don't these lawmakers feel they have a moral obligation to investigate & research the legislation they're voting on? Looks like they just don't care. :banghead:

Pyrrho · 05-22-2003, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Abel Stable
From the LA Times:
Texas OKs Disputed Abortion Legislation
free registration, but if you don't have the time:

Are the proponents of this bill just flat-out lying?? Are they completely ignorant? How does such obvious bullcrap get picked up? Don't these lawmakers feel they have a moral obligation to investigate & research the legislation they're voting on? Looks like they just don't care. :banghead:

Many anti-abortion people have no interest in facts. All they want to do is stop people from having abortions. The truth about anything is irrelevant.

Why would you imagine that lawmakers have any interest in being truthful? Do you imagine that telling the truth gets people elected? What planet are you on?

Ever since Roe vs. Wade, anti-abortion people have been trying every way they can to erode away that decision. This is far from being the first such attempt, nor will it be the last.

Dr Rick · 05-22-2003, 08:10 PM

Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev 2003 Mar;12(3):209-14
Induced abortion, miscarriage, and breast cancer risk of young women.
Mahue-Giangreco M, Ursin G, Sullivan-Halley J, Bernstein L.

Department of Preventive Medicine and Norris Comprehensive Cancer Center, Keck School of Medicine, University of Southern California, Los Angeles, California 90033.

Early studies of breast cancer raised substantial concern regarding risk associated with induced abortion and miscarriage. Literature reviews suggest that study findings depend heavily on the comparison group and that the use of parous women as a reference group for nulliparous women may artificially inflate risk....Breast cancer risk was reduced among nulliparous women with a history of induced abortion relative to nulligravid women, although the risk estimate was imprecise. Risk declined as the number of induced abortions increased (P = 0.04). Our results do not support the hypothesis that induced abortion or miscarriage increase the breast cancer risk of young women.

Science 2003 Mar 7;299(5612):1498
Cancer risk. Review rules out abortion-cancer link.
Couzin J.

Int J Cancer 2003 Feb 20;103(5):676-9

Abortions and breast cancer: record-based case-control study.

Erlandsson G, Montgomery SM, Cnattingius S, Ekbom A.

Department of Medical Epidemiology, Karolinska Institutet, Gunnar.Erlandsson

It has been suggested that abortions leave the breast epithelium in a proliferative state with an increased susceptibility to carcinogenesis. Results from previous studies of induced or spontaneous abortions and risk of subsequent breast cancer are contradictory, probably due to methodological considerations. We investigated the relationship between abortions and subsequent breast cancer risk in a case-control study using prospectively recorded exposure information...In conclusion, neither a history of induced nor spontaneous abortions is associated with an increased risk of breast cancer. Our data suggest a protective effect of pregnancies regardless of outcome.

N Engl J Med 1997 Jan 9;336(2)
Induced abortion and the risk of breast cancer.

Melbye M, Wohlfahrt J, Olsen JH, Frisch M, Westergaard T, Helweg-Larsen K, Andersen PK.

Department of Epidemiology Research, Danish Epidemiology Science Center, Statens Serum Institut, Copenhagen, Denmark.

BACKGROUND: It has been hypothesized that an interrupted pregnancy might increase a woman's risk of breast cancer because breast cells could proliferate without the later protective effect of differentiation...No increases in risk were found in subgroups defined according to age at abortion, parity, time since abortion, or age at diagnosis of breast cancer....CONCLUSIONS: Induced abortions have no overall effect on the risk of breast cancer.

Any questions?

Loren Pechtel · 05-22-2003, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr Rick
Breast cancer risk was reduced among nulliparous women with a history of induced abortion relative to nulligravid women, although the risk estimate was imprecise. Risk declined as the number of induced abortions increased (P = 0.04). Our results do not support the hypothesis that induced abortion or miscarriage increase the breast cancer risk of young women.

Oh, boy--I never realized it was actually negative. I figured they were playing games with abortion negating the protective effect of actually having a child.

It seems to me that the legislature is ordering the doctors to committ malpractice!

Toto · 05-22-2003, 11:31 PM

"The scientist who hated abortion and did something about it"
from Discover Magazine, Vol. 24 No. 2 (February 2003) details the agenda-driven research by Joel Brind to show a link between abortion and breast cancer, and his total failure to find one - which has not stopped him from pursuing his campaign based on bad science and bad politics.

Godless Dave · 05-23-2003, 06:26 AM

We just passed a Right to Know law too (or as Jesse Ventura called it when he vetoed it last year, the "Women are Stupid" bill). I don't know if it contains that breast cancer bullshit.

openeyes · 05-23-2003, 07:42 AM

I've wondered if our "Right to Know" includes all the risks and complications of carrying to term and delivering a baby. It struck me after having my first baby that there were things that occurred that I didn't recall anyone mentioning before the fact. It's quite a feat for one's body to experience. (Not to mention the responsibility of caring for another, initially very helpless human for at least 18 years.)

The "spontaneous abortion" (aka miscarriage) I had experiened earlier was nothing in comparison.

Loren Pechtel · 05-23-2003, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by openeyes
I've wondered if our "Right to Know" includes all the risks and complications of carrying to term and delivering a baby. It struck me after having my first baby that there were things that occurred that I didn't recall anyone mentioning before the fact. It's quite a feat for one's body to experience. (Not to mention the responsibility of caring for another, initially very helpless human for at least 18 years.)

The "spontaneous abortion" (aka miscarriage) I had experiened earlier was nothing in comparison.

Hmm..... I think the doctors could make a case that not including that information would amount to malpractice. The laws generally say what must be told--do they say that the phamplets can't say other things?

Godless Dave · 05-23-2003, 10:44 AM

I'm no lawyer, but I imagine there has to be a legitimate legal or constitutional objection to a law that forces doctors to lie.

Rushianbeing · 05-23-2003, 11:06 AM

As we told clients in the family planning clinic in Wyoming where I was a counselor:

It is more of a health risk to give birth than it is to have an abortion.

I believe there is a preponderance of evidence that smoking just MAY cause lung/throat/tongue cancer-are doctors being required to impart this knowledge to their patients??

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05-22-2003, 08:10 PM	#3
Dr Rick Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: USA Posts: 5,393	Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev 2003 Mar;12(3):209-14 Induced abortion, miscarriage, and breast cancer risk of young women. Mahue-Giangreco M, Ursin G, Sullivan-Halley J, Bernstein L. Department of Preventive Medicine and Norris Comprehensive Cancer Center, Keck School of Medicine, University of Southern California, Los Angeles, California 90033. Early studies of breast cancer raised substantial concern regarding risk associated with induced abortion and miscarriage. Literature reviews suggest that study findings depend heavily on the comparison group and that the use of parous women as a reference group for nulliparous women may artificially inflate risk....Breast cancer risk was reduced among nulliparous women with a history of induced abortion relative to nulligravid women, although the risk estimate was imprecise. Risk declined as the number of induced abortions increased (P = 0.04). Our results do not support the hypothesis that induced abortion or miscarriage increase the breast cancer risk of young women. Science 2003 Mar 7;299(5612):1498 Cancer risk. Review rules out* abortion-cancer link.* Couzin J. Int J Cancer 2003 Feb 20;103(5):676-9 Abortions and breast cancer: record-based case-control study. Erlandsson G, Montgomery SM, Cnattingius S, Ekbom A. Department of Medical Epidemiology, Karolinska Institutet, Gunnar.Erlandsson It has been suggested that abortions leave the breast epithelium in a proliferative state with an increased susceptibility to carcinogenesis. Results from previous studies of induced or spontaneous abortions and risk of subsequent breast cancer are contradictory, probably due to methodological considerations. We investigated the relationship between abortions and subsequent breast cancer risk in a case-control study using prospectively recorded exposure information...In conclusion, neither a history of induced nor spontaneous abortions is associated with an increased risk of breast cancer. Our data suggest a protective effect of pregnancies regardless of outcome. N Engl J Med 1997 Jan 9;336(2) Induced abortion and the risk of breast cancer. Melbye M, Wohlfahrt J, Olsen JH, Frisch M, Westergaard T, Helweg-Larsen K, Andersen PK. Department of Epidemiology Research, Danish Epidemiology Science Center, Statens Serum Institut, Copenhagen, Denmark. BACKGROUND: It has been hypothesized that an interrupted pregnancy might increase a woman's risk of breast cancer because breast cells could proliferate without the later protective effect of differentiation...No increases in risk were found in subgroups defined according to age at abortion, parity, time since abortion, or age at diagnosis of breast cancer....CONCLUSIONS: Induced abortions have no overall effect on the risk of breast cancer. Any questions?

05-22-2003, 11:31 PM	#5
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	"The scientist who hated abortion and did something about it" from Discover Magazine, Vol. 24 No. 2 (February 2003) details the agenda-driven research by Joel Brind to show a link between abortion and breast cancer, and his total failure to find one - which has not stopped him from pursuing his campaign based on bad science and bad politics.

05-23-2003, 06:26 AM	#6
Godless Dave Contributor Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: With 10,000 lakes who needs a coast? Posts: 10,762	We just passed a Right to Know law too (or as Jesse Ventura called it when he vetoed it last year, the "Women are Stupid" bill). I don't know if it contains that breast cancer bullshit.

05-23-2003, 07:42 AM	#7
openeyes Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Minnesota Posts: 4,215	I've wondered if our "Right to Know" includes all the risks and complications of carrying to term and delivering a baby. It struck me after having my first baby that there were things that occurred that I didn't recall anyone mentioning before the fact. It's quite a feat for one's body to experience. (Not to mention the responsibility of caring for another, initially very helpless human for at least 18 years.) The "spontaneous abortion" (aka miscarriage) I had experiened earlier was nothing in comparison.

05-23-2003, 10:44 AM	#9
Godless Dave Contributor Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: With 10,000 lakes who needs a coast? Posts: 10,762	I'm no lawyer, but I imagine there has to be a legitimate legal or constitutional objection to a law that forces doctors to lie.

05-23-2003, 11:06 AM	#10
Rushianbeing Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: the holler, y'all Posts: 243	As we told clients in the family planning clinic in Wyoming where I was a counselor: It is more of a health risk to give birth than it is to have an abortion. I believe there is a preponderance of evidence that smoking just MAY cause lung/throat/tongue cancer-are doctors being required to impart this knowledge to their patients??

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