Bobzammel

Any thoughts on how this relates, or does not relate to Jesus? Jewish interpetation seems to suggest that the "Servant" is Israel, which although it has suffered exile, has still 'astonished' many. This fits with other "Servant songs" from Isiah which directly refer to Jacob/Israel as "My servant and chosen". Also, there is a problem with applying the passage to Jesus--the "Servant" appears to suffer from some illness, and has the characteristics of a leper....the NT mentions this, but in relation to Jesus *healing* diseases which I don't think fits the original passage.

Any thoughts on this?

CJD

Without getting into the major details, the suffering servant has historically been viewed (by Jews and Christians) as 1) the nation of Israel; 2) the remnant of Israel (those who obey the covenant); and 3) a particular individual who represents the nation of Israel (like a king, etc., one who obeys the covenant on behalf of the nation). Depending on the context, each one of these fit into the prophet's usage of "suffering servant."

I don't think it was too much of a stretch for the NT writers to associate Jesus with this concept. As long as we don't argue that the prophet had anything like Jesus in mind when he spoke these words, we Christians will be treating the text responsibly.

Regards,

CJD

emotional

The association of the suffering servant with Jesus is fraught with problems. For a good summary see here.

CX

This has been controversial almost since AMt made the connection in the 1st century. We need look no later than Justin Martyr's Dialog with Trypho to see that Jews reject AMt's identification of Jesus with the suffering servant. Further it has been long noted that AMt may have had some trouble with the Hebrew Bible related to his apparent use of the LXX. Given his obvious confusion elsewhere (such as having Jesus literally riding into Jerusalem on a both a donkey and it's colt), it seems to me we should take Matthean prophetic interpretation with a large grain of salt. Much of it seems very contrived. Further, barring American fundamentalists, I don't know of too many modern Xians who use the Is 7:14 prophecy these days. It basically looks like something we've come to expect from AMt; vigorous and sometimes desperate data mining of the OT in order to show Jesus as the Jewish messiah.

CX

Who besides AMt makes this connection? (note: I'm not being contentious, but ask out of genuine curiousity. I've devoted very little study to the suffering servant motif and it's use in the NT).

[addendum: It seems like GMk 15:27 is a direct reference to the suffering servant. Additionally GJn seems to contain some concept of this as well.]

CX

I realize I'm talking about two different things in this thread. Apologies for being unclear.

CJD

I, too, have not devoted very much time to this theme in the NT. My understanding is that it is not directly alluded to by anyone other than AMt. But I would also contend that the idea that the Messiah had to suffer is found elsewhere in the NT. What follows is just a few thoughts on the subject in Mark and John. I might post again with some thoughts on how this theme relates to other portions of the NT, if and when I have the time.

First, I think it is important to note that messianic expectations at this time were anything but a "suffering servant." Indeed, the 1st century Jewish expectations for the Messiah was that his coming would be like King David, round two—a militaristic, nationalistic warrior hero (not divine, but anointed by the divine). This should help us put the following references in context.

Mk. 8:31 (cf. Lk. 9:22)—"Jesus began telling his disciples what would happen to him. He said, "The nation's leaders, the chief priests, and the teachers of the Law of Moses will make the Son of Man suffer terribly. He will be rejected and killed, but three days later he will rise to life."

Saint Peter then rebukes his rabbi for seemingly offering contradictory statements about suffering as the Messiah (v. 32; i.e., Jesus did not meet his expectations).

Jn. 3:14— "And the Son of Man must be lifted up, just as that metal snake was lifted up by Moses in the desert."

We can at least affirm that suffering is in view here, that the Messiah, so Jesus teaches, must be lifted up as a curse for the people.

Mark 10:45— "The Son of Man did not come to be a slave master, but a slave who will give his life to rescue many people."

Obvious allusion to servanthood. See also the whole pericope, Mk. 10:35–45. It seems GMark has as one of its main themes that Jesus, the servant-Messiah, was truly human and that he truly suffered.

When all is said and done, the gospel of Matthew attempted to make the parallels to the suffering servant unlike any of the other writers. I do think it is important to recognize once more that the suffering servant motif was not a 1st century messianic expectation. This unexpected coming of the Messiah threw everybody, so Matthew saw the suffering servant theme in Isaiah, and used it accordingly.

I say that it was not a stretch because I think it comes across as a stretch. There is no denying that. But my understanding of OT prophecy is an integral facet of my understanding of how the NT writers used such themes of the Tanak. I have begun to expound on this in a current post (see, "Are these failed prophecies?"), and if I am right in reading predictions in this way, then the NT writers' usage of OT predictions is not as outlandish as they seem (they are merely accomodating the text to the intervening historical contingencies [of which they are convinced God still transcends]). The obvious retort that anybody can do this provides only a theoretical hurdle, since nobody in rational-empirical reality has done it quite like that. Any "what-ifs" are beside the point.

I have also dealt with some specifics re: Matthew's use of OT predictions here (middle of page 2 through page 3).

Regards,

CJD

YHWHtruth

“Look! My servant will act with insight. He will be in high station and will certainly be elevated and exalted very much.” (Isaiah 52:13) Just who is this “servant”? Over the centuries, Jewish scholars offered various opinions. Some claimed that he represented the whole nation of Israel during its Babylonian exile. But such an explanation does not match the prophecy. God’s Servant suffers voluntarily. Although innocent, he suffers for the sins of others. This hardly describes the Jewish nation, which went into exile because of its sinful ways. (2_Kings 21:11-15; Jeremiah 25:8-11) Others claimed that the Servant represented the pious elite in Israel and that these suffered in behalf of sinful Israelites. However, during times of affliction in Israel, no one specific group suffered for another.

Before the advent of Christianity and to some extent during the early centuries of the Common Era, a few Jewish scholars did apply this prophecy to the Messiah. That this is the correct application is seen in the Christian Greek Scriptures. The book of Acts reports that when the Ethiopian eunuch said that he did not know the identity of the Servant of Isaiah’s prophecy, Philip “declared to him the good news about Jesus.” (Acts 8:26-40; Isaiah 53:7,_8) Other Bible books likewise identify Jesus Christ as the Messianic Servant of Isaiah’s prophecy. As we discuss this prophecy, we will see the undeniable parallels between the one whom Jehovah calls “my servant” and Jesus of Nazareth.

The prophecy begins by describing the ultimate success of the Messiah in carrying out the divine will. The word “servant” indicates that he will submit to God’s will, as a servant does to that of his master. In so doing, he “will act with insight.” Insight is the ability to see into a situation. To act with insight is to act discreetly. Regarding the Hebrew verb here used, one reference work says: “At its heart is the thought of prudent and wise dealing. He who deals wisely will obtain success.” That the Messiah will indeed be successful is seen in that the prophecy says he will “be elevated and exalted very much.”

Jesus did “act with insight,” showing understanding of the Bible prophecies that applied to him and being guided by them to do the will of his Father. (John 17:4; 19:30) With what result? Following Jesus’ resurrection and ascension to heaven, “God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name.” (Philippians 2:9; Acts 2:34-36) (Revelation 12:1-5) Yes, he was “elevated and exalted very much.”

Max