Foxhole Atheist

Not only is there evil in the world, one of the “Existence of God” arguments as to whether or not a god would allow such evil, there is a great deal of evil among religious practitioners. The breaking scandal in Boston, Pedophile Priests, although an underlying disgrace for many years, is bringing to light that belief in a deity does not necessarily mean a more moral character.

It is not only the Catholic Church that has experienced this “sexual” misconduct. Evidently, from noted studies, such as the National Catholic Reporter, Center for Domestic Violence, The Linkup and a 1990 United Methodist Church study, these types of predatory activities are not uncommon in non Catholic practitioners as well. I can remember the scandals involving Jimmy Swagart, Jessie Jackson and others.

If a belief in a god and the practicing of a religion is supposedly the moral “high ground”, why such immoral behavior?

Ms. Siv

And that is not true of Christianity alone.

Most of the God men in India lead extremely immoral lives. Sex (the perverted kind), drugs, drink .. everything goes on under the guise of religion.

- Sivakami.

[ February 01, 2002: Message edited by: Sivakami S ]</p>

Vorkosigan

Yes, I keep reading about Sai Baba and young males. Very scary.

Michael

DeceivedOne

I don't see how this is an absurdity for theistic religions unless their religion specifies that belief in them leads to moral improvement. Even in Christian theology it is disputed (by a position called Free Grace) that the bible teaches that conversion guarantees improvement in character. Even more strict views of Christianity that expect character improvement upon conversion acknowledge the reality of sinful mentalities that have still not been cleansed that have the oppotunity to manifest themselves. Hence we have priest pedophiles (presuming these are sincere believers, rather than some people who have established themselves in priestly positions merely for their own monetary or prestigious gain).
The goal for a christian is to allow the Holy Spirit to expose remaining sinful tendencies and not resist him when he seeks to cleanse the christian. Moreover, I have heard the proposition that the more bible the christian knows, the more the Spirit has to work with to change the christian's tendencies for the best, should the christian be non-resistant to improvement. (I don't know if the bible itself ever suggests this as a reason for why it should be read, though it seems like a sensible reason to me). This is a ground that pastors can emphasize for why it is important to read the bible, though often it seems that many atheists know more scripture than the average Christian. Therefore, a christian shouldn't be surprised that he sees his atheist neighbors acting more virtuously when he doesn't even take the effort to apply what he believes in, or to even study his own bible.
So it is a coherent possibility that Christianity or whatever other thiestic belief is true, while at the same time we see athiests appear more virtuous than believers. This is basically what I said in my very first sentence, but I felt it worthwhile to expound on it and shed any additional insight that we might have.

Otis Spann's blues

Not only is there evil in the world, one of the “Existence of God” arguments as to whether or not a god would allow such evil, there is a great deal of evil among religious practitioners. The breaking scandal in Boston, Pedophile Priests, although an underlying disgrace for many years, is bringing to light that belief in a deity does not necessarily mean a more moral character.

“Closer my god to thee” doesn’t carry much weight
With the pedophile priests do you think it’s the denial of basic sexual instinct that drives them to this type of action or are they pedophiles that are opportunistic in their choice of a career?. The reason I ask is the fact of the matter would be that if it was shown that the denial of sexual interaction led to perverse sexual interaction then not only is a devotion to the church and J unable to stop this type of action such devotion is directly responsible for it.

Mageth

IMO, it boils down to what theists accuse us atheists of being guilty of - we (believers and non-believers alike) are each our own free moral agent, and our actions are controlled from the inside, not the outside. How we behave is determined primarily by our own personal moral makeup. I am an atheist and not a pedophile because to me, personally, pedophilia is morally reprehensible, independent of any religious moral system. A theist/priest who is a pedophile is such because, to him, personally, pedophilia is morally acceptable, regardless of any relgious moral system. Any guilt he may feel from violating the religious moral system is not enough to overcome the behavior he personally justifies.

99Percent

Ah, and don't forget the absurd moral loophole that Christianity and specially Catholicism has: you can always repent of you sins afterwards. So those perverted Catholic priests probably had that in the back of their minds when they were commiting their pedophilic acts.

hinduwoman

The most amazing thing is not so much what these 'holy' men do but that their followers refuse to believe they are guilty.

Sai Baba had been exposed again and again, but his followers keep on insisting that he is holy and his detractors are wicked.

As for Mahesh rishi with his TM! He got kicked out of India --- that shows how bad he was, but Americans made him a billionaire!

Mageth

Good point, 99. How convenient to build a "confession/repentance" out into a moral system that conveniently lets one follow your "nature" while at the same time allowing one to escape any ultimate moral responsibility for your actions.

MassAtheist

hinduwoman - I couldn't agree more. It sickens me to see the number of Catholics in Boston publicly showing their support for Cardinal Law. They have now taken to wearing "little red hat" pins (they look like the hat the Cardinal wears) to show support. Give me a break...