Amos

Hello Volker, maybe you forgot, or maybe you never knew, that Catholic children are exposed to the brilliance of heaven long before the lights are dimmed on them. The Church teaches and aims to instill virtue and piety in children knowing that it will make their Eden a brighter place to remember long before they are set free to get lost in their own jungle of life.

To further prepare them for the world they plant "milestones of faith" along their journey of life and these are called Sacraments because they will deliver when called upon.

So the violence we must encounter is no more than a certain deviation from the brightness we once knew and so our encounter with the world does not have to be a gutter story. In this sense is it a win-win situation because they can prosper when the sun shines and be harvested when it is raining.

Good point because for the same reason are they the real victims of a previous cause.You are right about the caused actions but I disagree that order can lead to truth. Let me show you how the Church employs our violence (Krishnamurti's definition) for its own end. In the allegory of Hansel and Grethel the breadcrumbs were deeds of righteousness that they had placed while going into the jungle of life. Of course when darkness came they were never to be found because it was darkness that had either consumed or overshadowed them. In other words, there is no return for the righteous because order becomes disorder or darkness would never be.

Catholics here place milestones of faith along their journey and are allowed to remain lost because they were given a white candle at their Baptism that they now re-cognize as a ray of hope. This will be the beginning of their journey back into Eden (not the Church) and should take no more then 40 months because the milestones will highlight the necessary events (much like Bethel, Hebron and Shechem in the OT).

So more than anything, I advocate virtue and piety in children so that their days may be bright and a time to remember. If this is done well (don't ask me how), it will serve them as a direct link to Eden and hotline to heaven. If this, then it can be said that they are never really lost but only feel as if they are lost.

DBT

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Its been a while since I've read anything, there was a bit of scandal involved with Madam Blavatsky and Leadbetter and later with Krishnamurti the allegations were that he was having an afair with his editors wife-Rosalind Rajapol- and her daughter,Rahda Sloss wrote a scathing book, basically saying that his private persona was different to his public image.
But like Ronin,I enjoyed reading about their lives, they were an interesting bunch and of course any insights he had remain valid and true despite anything else he may have done.

Toto

There is a response to Gardner's article on this page (scroll down to "Response").

Another author has this to say:

from Nonrational, Nonretentive Cognitive Style at Humbolt State

So if you think that rational mind can develop a better ethical system than the 613 commandments developed by a nut who talked to burning bushes, or the rabid anti-Semitic ravings of Martin Luther, K. may not exactly be your guy. But take whatever insights you can get from what he wrote, with or without some help from the local agricultural crop at HSU.

Doctor X

Toto:

When I have a faster connection, I will check out the link. I will note, however, that the second quote does not address the criticisms of Gardner. It appeals to ignorance as if ignorance is something special--"all dose udda guys have hi falutin' talk."

Not that I have a personal opinion. For the record, I had a teacher and friend who was very much into JK.

Madam Blavatsky was a charlatan, however.

I would never consider Moses, Luther, or many of the other "great leaders" anything to emulate.

--J.D.

Amos

Well Iagree with you on Madam Blavatsky but Moses was just as bad and more wrong to lead the Children of Israel into the promised land where they died nonetheless despite all the scriptures they burned to fuel the fire in their soul.

Volker.Doormann

"Damn the Pharisees! They are like a dog sleeping in the cattle manger: the dog neither eats nor [lets] the cattle eat."
(Jesus in the GOT)

Ronin

As are all mystics and peddlers of the supernatural...your point?

Amos

Good point.

Volker.Doormann

Hi Amos,
the simple truth is, that the catholic church has no right to take 9 year old girls, label them as brides of Christ with a penis/serpent symbol in the hand, which was taken from the Indian Shiva cult doormann.org/the0.htm, having no knowledge abut this crime ritual, and about the meaning of 'garden of joy' (woman's womb).You miss the point, that the line of breadcrumbs does symbolize the thread, which connects the individual soul every time with the remote light. And this is the order. Light. As you can see well, if you are not blind or on day, you can find your true way back home from an order recognizable through light. If order would not related to truth, than disorder would related to truth.The mistaken idea in this is, that the catholic church is a phantom. There are individual fleshly men only wearing woman's clothes. I agree on that, that each individual child has the right to search for light and see the light, free from the bondage of fleshly unmarried authorities, knowing nothing about the bride chamber, knowing not, why Jesus has spoken about woman's, who do not bear children and breast them.

Volker

Doctor X

Amos:

Except Moses never had any existence.

Ronin:

Perhaps why the Buddhist proverb "if you see the Buddha on the side of the road--kill him!" applies.

--J.D.