Freethought & Rationalism Archive

LiveFreeOrDie · 08-08-2002, 01:06 PM

Thanks for all the anti-encouragement. You may have prevented a crazy idea from turning into a disaster.

I may try to see if any of the diploma mill and tax evading stuff has any sway on the minister.

If not, I may go to watch, barf bag in hand.

crab juice · 08-08-2002, 03:21 PM

That "prestigious university" looks like the house the Brady Bunch lived in.

Kosh · 08-08-2002, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by crab juice:
That "prestigious university" looks like the house the Brady Bunch lived in.

Nah, it's blessed. See the cross in the background?

Besides, an architect would never be caught living in a house like that....

Camaban · 08-08-2002, 04:49 PM

Printing out plenty of the stuff from these links (especially from others who've tried to win his "challenge" (You can see why it was increased to 250k. the 10k was for when he wanted to make sure it was unwinnable)) and handing them out would be fun at the very least.

tgamble · 08-08-2002, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Camaban:
Printing out plenty of the stuff from these links (especially from others who've tried to win his "challenge" (You can see why it was increased to 250k. the 10k was for when he wanted to make sure it was unwinnable)) and handing them out would be fun at the very least.

I wonder why he just doesn't offer a cool million. "Become an instant millionaire by provideing evidence for the evolution religion!" <img src="graemlins/boohoo.gif" border="0" alt="[Boo Hoo]" /> <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

[ August 08, 2002: Message edited by: tgamble ]

Grumpy · 08-08-2002, 05:20 PM

FWIW, my response when Hovind was in my town last September was to send an e-mail to the megachurch that invited him, advising them that having him as a guest reflects poorly on their reputation.

Quote:

To whom it may concern,

I was disappointed to learn that ABT will once again host Kent Hovind. Though this man claims that he wants to bring accuracy into science education, he himself repeats too many inaccuracies to be taken seriously. The Temple does not gain anything by associating with this character.

Hovind's standard lectures include dubious facts offered as evidence of a recently created Earth. For example, the rate of the Earth's rotation slowing down or the Moon receding from the Earth. These phenomena are not nearly as significant as Hovind claims, as simple arithmetic can demonstrate.

The list goes on and on. Unfortunately, this is
Hovind's style: touch on as many spurious facts as
possible, no matter how irrelevant or inaccurate. No one is able to refute him during his presentations because it takes longer to cross-check his claims than it does for him to utter them.

Hovind has often been told about these mistakes (or outright lies), yet he fails to correct himself. It was bad enough when Hovind used the ABT stage once to spread his misinformation throughout our city. He does not deserve any more repeat performances.

I never received a personal reply, but at least Hovind has not been back since then. However, it has been less than a year, so anything can happen.

tgamble · 08-08-2002, 05:24 PM

Wasn't there a recent post on talkorigins (and here I think) where Hovind got kicked out of a church? More accurate, his literature did.

Here ya go.

<a href="http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/postmonth/may00.html" target="_blank">http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/postmonth/may00.html</a>

<a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=58&t=000984&p=" target="_blank">http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=58&t=000984&p=</a>

That first link isn't correct through it's still useful.

[ August 08, 2002: Message edited by: tgamble ]

Jimmy Higgins · 08-09-2002, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LiveFreeOrDie:
I was browsing the Doctor's web site and noticed that the esteemed Doctor Hovind himself is coming to speak at a church near me early next year.

A slightly crazy side of me says that I should volunteer to be a debate partner.

Would I be a fool for engaging in such folly? If I were to do so, what strategy would be most effective?

Obviously I wouldn't want to play the fool in Hovind's little stage show. I'd want to attack him somewhere where he didn't expect it.

Actually I'd go with the idea of being a pro-flat earther, using the Noah flood and Genesis as the evidence.

tgamble · 08-09-2002, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jimmy Higgins:


Actually I'd go with the idea of being a pro-flat earther, using the Noah flood and Genesis as the evidence.

I don't think the audience (if it's pro hovind, if it isn't, there isn't a problem anyway) would be happy about that.

Hovind supporters aren't that stupid to think the earth is flat and Hovind will milk the evil atheist distorting the bible angle for all it's worth.

I think the best stratagy is to treat Hovind's argument as scientific arguments (yeah, I know) and tear em to shreds. No mention of god or the bible.

Of course, it might be a big waste of time in any case. If one is a Creationist , do you really care about anything other than what the Bible says?

LiveFreeOrDie · 08-09-2002, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tgamble:
I think the best stratagy is to treat Hovind's argument as scientific arguments (yeah, I know) and tear em to shreds. No mention of god or the bible.

In a typical debate, though, there simply isn't time to rebut everything. Plus, it's exactly what he is expecting.

I think a three-pronged approach would be most effective:

1. Question his credibility, in a positive way. Ignore his rants and pick a topic, isochron dating for example, to explain to the audience. Make him come after you.

2. Use theology against him. Romans 1:20. St. Augustine. The Pope. Show that there are religious people who know better.

3. Question Hovind's whole premise. How are scientists so successful at suppressing the "truth"? Who coordinates it?

08-08-2002, 05:24 PM	#17
tgamble Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: St. John's, Nfld. Canada Posts: 1,652	Wasn't there a recent post on talkorigins (and here I think) where Hovind got kicked out of a church? More accurate, his literature did. Here ya go. <a href="http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/postmonth/may00.html" target="_blank">http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/postmonth/may00.html</a> <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=58&t=000984&p=" target="_blank">http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=58&t=000984&p=</a> That first link isn't correct through it's still useful. [ August 08, 2002: Message edited by: tgamble ]</p>

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08-08-2002, 01:06 PM	#11
LiveFreeOrDie Junior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Milwaukee, WI, USA Posts: 77	Thanks for all the anti-encouragement. You may have prevented a crazy idea from turning into a disaster. I may try to see if any of the diploma mill and tax evading stuff has any sway on the minister. If not, I may go to watch, barf bag in hand.

08-08-2002, 03:21 PM	#12
crab juice Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: A million miles away... Posts: 229	That "prestigious university" looks like the house the Brady Bunch lived in.

08-08-2002, 04:49 PM	#14
Camaban Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 473	Printing out plenty of the stuff from these links (especially from others who've tried to win his "challenge" (You can see why it was increased to 250k. the 10k was for when he wanted to make sure it was unwinnable)) and handing them out would be fun at the very least.

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