Vorkosigan

In any case,no scion of the house of david sits on the throne of israel, which is a democracy, not a monarchy.

lcb

even though i am a skeptic, as i study these, i am beginning to think that they could not all be self-fulfilling....the world hates the jews too much for that....I am having a very disturbing day intellectually!

lcb

hey Volks, the christians at my college say that "thy kindgom come" and that the temple mount faithful is planning to rebuild that temple and that Jesus came as a sacrificial lamb the first time but is coming as a King this time....it makes me wonder!

Toto

This is a common line from Christian apologists, but there are problems with it. First of all, it is not clear that early Christians were all martyrs. In fact, you could say that if the resurrection had actually happened, Christianity should have been a major sect in Jerusalem in the first half of the first century, instead of an insignificant sect that left no unambiguous mark on the secular history of the Roman empire. (There's an article on whether Christians were actually martyrs somewhere, but I don't have time to find it now.)

Secondly, you see people willing to martyr themselves for all sorts of bizarre and contradictory reasons. Does the willingness of the hijackers to die for Allah mean that Allah is the one true god and Mohammed his prophet? Does the willingness of the Heaven's Gate sect to die for their beliefs mean that there is a spaceship up there waiting for them? Think of all the other lame brain suicide cults around, and realize it wasn't much different back then.

Clutch

Right. And the same reasoning proves that David Koresh was the Messiah, that Jim Jones was the Messiah, and that an alien spacecraft was hiding in the Hale-Bopp comet. People went to their deaths willingly for each of these beliefs. Either they were all true, or (willingness to die for a supernatural belief ) + ($1.15) = cup of coffee.

Butters

I only skimmed through the site you gave, but I would research this further. For example it may be likly that these prophecies address the first or second exile of the Jews, a prophecy that might have been written after the fact, or even a short time before. If I had prophesied that America would kick ass in the gulf war, would that have been a miracle? To predict that the Jews would be at war with SOMEBODY at SOMETIME is a pretty sure bet.

lcb

those fulfilled Bible prophecies just won't get out of my mind...I went to the library and checked the secular dates for the bible books and it seems that they may be valid....if that is the case then i may have to rethink a lot of things,i didnt think there was any real evidence.ugh!

Toto

The world doesn't hate the Jews too much for that, and certainly didn't hate the Jews in the late 1940's, when Hitler had been defeated and the extent of the Holocaust became clear. That was part of the motive for setting up the state of Israel, the other part being a conscious decision to give the Jews their ancestral home.

And do you know how long Christians have been claiming that Jesus was going to return? He was supposed to come back within the lifetime of people in the first century. He didn't. Why do you think this year will be any different?

Butters

O.K. how about this one?

. Isaiah spoke of a Israel being reborn in one day
Bible passage: Isaiah 66:7-8
Written: perhaps between 701-681 BC
Fulfilled: 1948
In Isaiah 66:7-8, the prophet foreshadowed the re-birth of Israel in 1948. Isaiah describes a woman giving birth before going into labor, and he speaks of a country being born in one day. This accurately describes what happened on May 14, 1948 - when the Jews declared independence for Israel as a united and sovereign nation for the first time in 2900 years.
During that same day, the United States issued a statement recognizing Israel's sovereignty. And, only hours beforehand, a United Nations mandate expired, ending British control of the land. During a 24-hour span of time, foreign control of the land of Israel had formally ceased, and Israel had declared its independence, and its independence was acknowledged by other nations. Modern Israel was literally was born in a single day.
But there's more: Isaiah said the birth would take place before there would be labor pains. And that too is precisely what happened. A movement called Zionism began in the 1800s to encourage Jews worldwide to move to Israel, which at that time was called Palestine. Within hours of the peaceful declaration of independence in 1948, Israel was attacked by the surrounding countries of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Saudi Arabia. Israel prevailed in that war and expanded the size of the country by 50 percent.
So, when you read Isaiah 66:7-8, keep in mind that Israel became a country in a single day, and that it was born of a movement called Zionism, and that the birth was peaceful but the aftermath was painful.
Here is Isaiah 66:7-8
"Before she goes into labor, she gives birth; before the pains come upon her, she delivers a son. Who has ever heard of such a thing? Who has ever seen such things? Can a country be born in a day or a nation be brought forth in a moment? Yet no sooner is Zion in labor than she gives birth to her children."

First, any nation can be born in one day, if you consider declaring themselves one as the only criteria. The US was born on one day, July 4th 1776. As For the rest, he is saying that the labor pains came after the birth(Arabs attacking).

But if you read the Bible passage further, you see that there were NO birth pains, in fact it goes on to say "I will extend peace to her like a river, and the wealth of nations like a flooding stream." It always helps to read the WHOLE chapter. I would not get worried until representativesof all nations go to Israel "on horses,in chariots, and wagons, and on mules and camels"!

Clutch

lcb,

Hello? Hello? <tap tap tap> This thing working?

There is no real evidence. Every specific example you've mention is a dismal fallacy, and has been debunked for your viewing pleasure. Are you seriously interested in this feedback? Read the responses you've been given, and post the examples you find most convincing; I guarantee their status as "prophetic" will be eviscerated.