HelenM

This reminds me - I was struck by Karen Armstrong pointing out that Abraham (according to the Biblical narrative) experienced God as 'an imperative' i.e. "Go!" (The narrative says, God told Abraham to leave his family behind and move to a new land that God would show him).

I think people in all worldviews experience 'imperatives' but of course they would differently express their perception of the source of the imperative.

Anyway, does pantheism make sense? Well, if you think it does it does, otherwise it doesn't...i.e. isn't this a hopelessly subjective question? If I stand on my head do I have a basis for complaining the world has suddenly turned upside-down?

Plus, as some have mentioned in this thread, there are varieties of pantheism; I'd say that Panta Pei's quote de-emphasizes the "I was once a frog and I'll be a frog again if I don't behave in this life" aspects of some pantheists beliefs - or, am I ignorantly mixing up my religions here?

take care
Helen

garthoverman

Non-physcial states of being do not equal God. They simply represent dimensional perspectives that we, as a species of consciousness, have excluded. We know that their are literally infinite dimensions, yet we can only perceive 3 through our physical senses. Experiential data from extra-dimensional realities can only be perceived extra-sensorily through extentions of consciousness such as dreaming, imagination, wonder etc... and then are translated into terms that we recongize and affect our own physical reality.

I can see where you see that. After some research I think there is very little material difference between pantheism and panentheism. The difference I suppose rests in the acceptence of the reality of non-physical existence, and thus incorporating the non-physical as well as the physical as part of the universe. In that regrad, I suppose you are using the appropriate theistic nomenclature. I was previously unaware of that difference.

AnthonyAdams45

Try this explanation on for size. I think it captures what's important about pantheism, and also explains why many theists see no difference between pantheism and atheism, and why many atheists see no difference between pantheism and theism.

For the theist, at least two categories of things exist: the divine and the not-divine

For the pantheist, only one category exists: the divine

For the atheist, only one category exists: the not-divine.

The theist looks at the pantheist and sees "one category" and says "atheist"

The atheist looks at the pantheist and sees "divine" and says "theist"

Hope this helps.

HelenM

AnthonyAdams45, the theists I know haven't had trouble distinguishing atheism and pantheism.

Atheism = no god(s).

Pantheism = everything is God.

[Mono]theism = God is a Person and is transcendent and separate from all created things.

Polytheism = animism; lots of gods; things have 'spirits'...

(Panentheism = somewhere inbetween pantheism and theism as best I can tell)

Maybe this is a bit simplistic but it's not as simplistic as your 'divine/not-divine' dichotomy.

take care
Helen

d'naturalist

My understanding is that pantheism is essentially what you might call "pure supernaturalism". In other words, there is no natural world -- all that exists is the supernatural deity who is literally everything (which I guess makes us the equivalent of cells in it's "body"... or figments of it's imagination).

Veil of Fire

Wow, you must have access to some kickass proprietary information! Care to share it?

Veil of Fire

Yeah, that's about what I thought.