Orpheous99

Speaking of maturity, you're the one who believes in a mythical sky father. You're only getting back what you give.

Layman

On what basis are you making these "projections" and how did you determine that what these "recent trends" are? Much less that they are worldwide.

The reason I thought you had "faith" that your side would win out is that you were attempting to refute the idea of Christianity's veracity by pointing out that if it were true then it would attract everyone to it. You seemed to be assuming--having faith--that people will always be attracted to the truth.

I would say that atheists have just as bad--perhaps a worse--track record of using government power to enforce their monopology when they have managed to gain control of the government.

But I'm unsure how you think this is "distroting" the numbers? Do you really think that there are large groups of Muslims who are really atheists in Afghanistan for example?

Funny. First, you haven't established what is really "in action." Second, this is irrelevant. Whatever is "in action" is by definition "evolution." Evolution doesn't predict that the most true belief system will win. It predicts that the belief system most succesful in gaining adherents will win.

Given the Islamic birth rate, I'd saw we both have reason to worry.

Orpheous99

Maybe, but for one simple fact. Atheism is not an organized belief system as religions like Christianity and Islam are. Plus there is another fact. Many times throughout history theists would put to death anyone who express such non-beliefs and the smart ones learned to be careful in expressing such opinions. Many theists are psychotic when it comes to their fairy tales.

Layman

I've known many mature people who believe in God. Indeed, most mature people in this country believe in God. Unless of course you believe that 96% of the country is immature. Of course, then you are simply defining theism as immaturity.

Playing word games, such as chopping up someone's sentence to pretend that they claimed that they just "do not think," on the other hand, is more a trademark of a junior high school intellect than it is a mature person.

I would only add that you've basically justified being rude and distorting another person's statements with the sole justification that such a person is a theist.

What a sad bunch of chest-thumpers.

[ February 15, 2002: Message edited by: Layman ]</p>

Layman

I'm not the one claiming that the most true belief system necessarily will win the day. That was Toto's idea.

An atheists have used their control over the state to enforce atheism to a much greater degree than Christians used their control over the state to enforce their Christianity.

emotional

Hey theists, what would you do without the system of reward and punishment? How'd you get along without the Pascalian proposal of divine carrot and stick? Is there any chance Christianity or Islam could ever have been successful if they didn't have a system of reward and punishment? I think not.

Your God is weak indeed, a weak invention of weak, manipulative human beings: he cannot win over people to his One True Faith by intellectual persuasion and kind compassion, so he resorts to threats of pain and violence. The Abrahamic God is indeed the role model for all school bullies worldwide, as in: "give me a quarter every day or I kick the shit out of you".

<a href="http://www.jhuger.com/kisshank.mv" target="_blank">All You Need To Know About God</a>

Orpheous99

Originally posted by Layman:



So if these nontheistic religions are the only rational approaches, why do they remain such a small minority. I appreciate that you have faiththat these systems will win out over theistic religions, but you've offered nothing more than that.

That is because most people are not "rational", but perfer to be mindless sheep who are told what to think and and how to act.

But back to your original point: the notion that because no one religion has supplanted all the others, no religion can be supported by any proof. It's obviously wishful thinking on your part.

Oh, please. this is evidence that none of them know what they're talking about and are making it up as they go along.

And if Buchanan is right, then we'll all be Muslims anyway.

The way which Islam is growing he maybe rightand since it is a dominance based religion we may not have any choice.

Orpheous99

Originally posted by Layman:



I've known many mature people who believe in God. Indeed, most mature people in this country believe in God. Unless of course you believe that 96% of the country is immature. Of course, then you are simply defining theism as immaturity.

Maturity is a relative term.

(Irrelevant crap deleted)

Layman

[quote]Originally posted by Orpheous99:
You are making a giant leap here.

We may not. But that's my point. Toto's idea that the most true belief system will win is not necessarily true. It's just not that simple. Islam may outpace us. I still have some hope for the West--Buchanan is oversimplistic in much of his analysis. But the point is that the survivability of a belief system does not guarantee its truthfulness, only its success as perpetuating itself.

Layman

Inspiring defense Orpheous. And I like the profanity. It definitely supports your claim of maturity.