Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Coragyps · 08-24-2002, 05:51 AM

Having a slow weekend? Study up on baramins <a href="http://www.bryancore.org/bsg/" target="_blank">here</a>.

Undercurrent · 08-24-2002, 10:29 AM

Sounds remarkably like cladistics, except without ever reaching the conclusion that there is one "holobaramin".

m.

lpetrich · 08-24-2002, 10:35 AM

Their only nonbiblical criterion for a baramin is the inability to crossbreed; I wonder if anyone has considered how the ability to crossbreed could become non-transitive:

A and B can crossbreed
B and C can crossbreed
A and C cannot crossbreed

That would be necessary for the emergence of genetic incompatibility in many cases; in such a case, B would be a species that evolved from A and C a species that evolved from B.

Genetic incompatibility may be relative, however; there may be an intermediate state of poor but present fertility of hybrids.

Are there alternatives? Hybrid and polyploid speciation are mechanisms that do not requre such non-transitivity, but they have other problems, such as each individual finding another individual to reproduce with. A hybrid could find another hybrid in a hybrid zone between two species, but an incompatible polyploid would have a hard time finding another such polyploid. So either asexual reproduction or being a self-fertilizing hermaphrodite would be necessary -- both of which are common among land plants, though rare in the animal kingdom.

[ August 24, 2002: Message edited by: lpetrich ]</p>

gallo · 08-24-2002, 10:45 AM

Herring gull can breed with American herring gull can breed with Vega herring gull can breed with Birula's gull can breed with Heuglin's gull can breed with Siberian lesser black-backed gull can breed with Lesser black-backed gull. However, the Herring gull cannot breed with the Lesser black-backed gull. They share the same range.

Duvenoy · 08-24-2002, 10:55 AM

It certainly slowed my weekend down. I especally liked this, litle gem:

Quote:

Many facts are presented to establish the position that the brazen serpents which bit the children of Israel in the wilderness of the Arabian desert were literal venomous snakes, and not guinea worm attacks as stated in some parasitology textbooks. The miracle of instantaneous healing from a look at a brass snake on a pole is readily understood in light of John 3:14,15.

Brass snake on a pole curing snakebite! Damn! Where can I get me one o' them poles and brass snakes?

doov

08-24-2002, 05:51 AM	#1
Coragyps Veteran Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Snyder,Texas,USA Posts: 4,411	Baraminology - the authoritative source! Having a slow weekend? Study up on baramins <a href="http://www.bryancore.org/bsg/" target="_blank">here</a>.

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08-24-2002, 10:29 AM	#2
Undercurrent Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Santa Fe, NM Posts: 2,362	Sounds remarkably like cladistics, except without ever reaching the conclusion that there is one "holobaramin". m.

08-24-2002, 10:35 AM	#3
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	Their only nonbiblical criterion for a baramin is the inability to crossbreed; I wonder if anyone has considered how the ability to crossbreed could become non-transitive: A and B can crossbreed B and C can crossbreed A and C cannot crossbreed That would be necessary for the emergence of genetic incompatibility in many cases; in such a case, B would be a species that evolved from A and C a species that evolved from B. Genetic incompatibility may be relative, however; there may be an intermediate state of poor but present fertility of hybrids. Are there alternatives? Hybrid and polyploid speciation are mechanisms that do not requre such non-transitivity, but they have other problems, such as each individual finding another individual to reproduce with. A hybrid could find another hybrid in a hybrid zone between two species, but an incompatible polyploid would have a hard time finding another such polyploid. So either asexual reproduction or being a self-fertilizing hermaphrodite would be necessary -- both of which are common among land plants, though rare in the animal kingdom. [ August 24, 2002: Message edited by: lpetrich ]</p>

08-24-2002, 10:45 AM	#4
gallo Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Houston, TX, US Posts: 244	Herring gull can breed with American herring gull can breed with Vega herring gull can breed with Birula's gull can breed with Heuglin's gull can breed with Siberian lesser black-backed gull can breed with Lesser black-backed gull. However, the Herring gull cannot breed with the Lesser black-backed gull. They share the same range.

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