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Old 06-24-2003, 05:36 AM   #1
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Romania
Posts: 4,975
Default help me with a debate

(this is just info, you can skip)
i am currently in a debate which has gone over 90 posts, it started when i was a christian who would have never though that i would become atheist (or that there were any people who reasonably took that name). there was only one atheist there henryhill, i don't know if he sugested to read the library at infidels, but his non preaching and non-confuse attitude sent me into the wildest last months of my life. although i read tons of books, i read almost everything in infidels and more. right now i'm really starting to make some rules to guide me, and to clear away the chaos that was my mind.

after a period that i did not post anything i, one night, after reading for hours realised that i did not believe anything... fromt eh progressive etherial versions of christianity to deism agnosticism i had realised an end to the emotional rolercoaster.
i posted one thing, i did not want to argue, or show off, jsut to thank them for helping me clear up what was a very important issue, and help me decide, even though we now have diffrent opinions. they told me the will pray and stuff, mildly threatened with hell, and provoked a debate.

(here goes)
after many side issues i told them that if they would bring one evidence to sustain the claim that eh bible is teh word fo god than i would have no reason to be an atheist anymore. one of them flooded me with bible quotes, and then we passed to a strange topic.
another person said if i would have to study the bible to see if it was right, i would just have to accept teh claim that it makes of its own. i said no, i would go with no prejudgements BEFORE studying the evidence. he said that then i would be denying the option that it may be right and i would be assuming. i said i would be as objective as i can. he said no one is objective...and we got to worldviews and what should evidence be.
i told him that anything that is not based on personal experience was ok. he missunderstood personal experience..i clarified (keep in mind that english is not my first language and i noticed some theists like to play around with words and meanings) adn demanded testable experiments, or logical deductions from accepted axioms or material evidence.
i said i would not accept any supposed personal experience of supernatural, because they cannot be tested.


then this came:
It's ironic that you believe Occam's razor, or at least are using it as an argument don't you think? Where is the testable evidence for the truth of Occam's razor? I don't believe there is any, therefore your whole argument there, according to your standards, must be thrown out. If you want to use it as an argument, PLEASE PROVE IT!! You are just making an assumption.
(end quote)

help anyone...maybe i base my ways of thinking on thsi because it sounds good to me...but, do i have to prove it?

quote:
Quote: "for me to hold something true i need evidence, logical deductions started from accepted axioms, or testable experiments"

Ok, then for that sentence, which is the framework of your whole worldview:
Prove it through evidence OR
Give me logical deductions started from accepted axions OR
Testable experiemnts
To prove its validity as a statement. You have been ASSUMING this the whole discussion. You avoided answering my ONE question to you at the end of the last post.

and this. maybe i just suck at expressing myself.... so what should i answer to what evidence should a person expect...?
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