ohwilleke

I wonder if debunking the Bible isn't the wrong way to go about establishing widespread recognition of it as a myth.

Even as a fairly educated person, who studied Western civilization, has read a lot on my own, and has been to musuems, I know for a fact that i have a pretty fuzzy idea of ancient history.

It seems to me that the way to make an impact is by talking about what we know did happen, instead of what didn't. Sure, there are plenty of stories on the "cutting edge", but most of us don't have the basic story. Sure, there are plenty of very short treatments (my Almanac covers all of ancient history including human evolution and palentology in 7 pages), and there are plenty of excruciatingly detailed studies of particular archeological digs or other minutia. But, there really aren't many layman accessible book length treatments of ancient history as a general subject. I think that the interest is out there. But, the gap just hasn't been filled, and as we all know, "God" always moves into the gaps.

For example, it appears that we actually have a pretty comprehensive history of ancient Egypt, but few people study it other than Egpytologists in the higher levels of their university educations.

It seems to me that the natural thing to do would be to try to make a semester or so long course in ancient history (i.e. prior to the fall of the Roman Empire), as widely accepted a part of the curricula in schools and colleges as Western Civilization is now. If everyone was familiar with what was going on in 2500 BCE, they wouldn't feel a need to turn to the Bible as history.

Alexis Comnenus

Hi there,

The book you want is Egypt, Greece and Rome by Charles Hunter Freeman (from Amazon). Buy it tomorrow and devour it.

Regards

Alex

RyanS2

Hmm... I'm a William McNeill (he's a historian for those who aren't familiar with his work), fan and he was talking about in his day, (1985), the debate between historians. In particular, he was lamenting that historians, archaeologists, linguists, and other social science studies are trying to become completely shut-out from the outside World. In essense, history books are being written for historians to read, archaeologists are writing to each other, etc. That's pointless to him because he thinks the point of history is to educate people about their origins, where they are going, how they got there, and the more incomprehensible the reports historians publish, the more post-modernism sinks into play. Or as you put it, God sinks into play. William believes it is not the fault of the people for not knowing history, it's the fault of the historians for not making it accessible to the public. You've probably heard a comment when a Biblical "maximist" is talking about Biblical "minimalist" and you hear a comment like "He's never done any field work there himself" or some such nonsense. McNeill believed that the problem was just that, how can you fault people for not knowing a subject you can't write effectively about?

IMHO, the best book on ancient history is the first volume of Will Durant's Story of Civlization series "Our Oriental Heritage". It was written seventy years ago, but it's amazingly updated. His discussion on the history of ancient Israel is very in-depth, he talks about problems with King david and Solomon being massive rulers, that some of the prophets may have been nothing more than propaganda machines for the Persian empire, etc. It's about 1000 pages or so, but it's worth every piece of ink.

Michael Ledo

Finally someone. I have a few chapters in my book "Bible bloopers..." which may be of interest. Here are three:

David and Solomon
“Archaeology often provides some extremely powerful external evidence.” –Josh McDowell


David and Solomon are the two most vivid kings in the Bible. In spite of that there are no texts outside of the Bible to confirm their existence. Solomon’s vast trading empire left no tax records, no trade records, and no census. Likewise, all the empires that traded with Solomon left no records of their transactions with Solomon, while leaving detailed records of other transactions. The neighboring Assyrians referred to Israel as “the land of the house of Omri.” Omri was the great king that unified Israel. Today he is mostly remembered in the New York Times Crossword. Like most Old Testament stories there is truth and myth mixed in with David and Solomon. Let us try to separate the two.
 
First, let’s start with some historical facts. The separation of what is known to be true and what is mostly fiction or unproven in the Bible can be divided at 1 Kings 16:8-9 and 2 Chronicles 16. Omri was an actual king. Another real character is Shishak I of 1 Kings 14:25-26 and 2 Chronicles 12:2-9. This Egyptian pharaoh invaded the Near East sometime during his reign (945-924 B.C.). Shishak writes very little of his campaign. Apparently he won a major battle at Megiddo and collected tribute from the land of Syria. He gives a list of the cities he conquered (155 names appear, but only 17 can be identified; Jerusalem is not one of them). Bible scholars claim he caused great devastation to Palestine.
The odd thing is that Shishak made no boast about taking the great treasure of Solomon. Egypt was a declining empire. Such a vast treasure would have lifted the spirits of the people. The manifest of Solomon’s treasure does indeed exist in Egypt! The treasure is not attributed to Solomon, but to the prince of Kadesh. Solomon’s treasure was too great to be confused with normal treasures.
 
Thutmose III invaded the Near East in 1468 B.C. (Solomon’s reign typically dated from 1000-960 B.C.) He boasted of his captured booty by inscribing every piece on the temple of Thebes (Luxor). Among his booty: a great throne of ivory overlaid with pure gold (2 Chron 9:17, “made a great throne of ivory and overlaid it with gold”); altars and tables of gold for sacrifice along with gold bowls, 100 plates, drinking vessels, knives making 435 lb. troy and cones of shewbread of silver and gold (1 Kings 7:48, “made all the vessels that pertained unto the house of the Lord: the altar of gold, and the table of gold whereupon the shewbread was”); candlesticks with lamps and flowers (1 Kings 7:49, “candlesticks of pure gold…with the flowers, and the lamps” [also 2 Chr 4:20-21]); 101 basins of gold (2 Chr 4:8, “made an hundred basons of gold”); gold chains (2 Chr 3:16, “And he made chains…”); gold and precious stones (2 Chr 3:5-6, “overlaid with fine gold…and he garnished the house with precious stones”); 200 targets and 300 shields of gold (2 Chr 9:15-16, “two hundred target of beaten gold…and three hundred shields he made of beaten gold”); hooks and implements of brass and gold (2 Chr 4:16, “pots, and the shovels, and the fleshhooks, and all their instruments of …bright brass”); carved animal figures of lions and oxen (1 King 7:29, “between the ledges were lions, oxen…”); lotus vials in gold and silver (1 Kings 7:26, “the brim of a cup with flowers of lilies”); a large brass altar (2 Chr 4:1, “an altar of brass”); 33 doors of beaten copper (2 Chr. 4:9, “and overlaid the doors of them with brass”); and many more items. This was the legendary treasure of Solomon. Even the number of the individual items was the same. The prince of Kadesh possessed the treasure of Solomon.

This treasure is a unique manifest. It is a fingerprint in time. It is mentioned again in an epic poem unearthed in Ugarit from circa 1400 B.C. The Ugarit texts provide a common background for both Greek and Hebrew stories and myths. Ugarit was an international Canaanite city of commerce, possibly part of the Hittite empire. The epic poem relates a story of great treasure and a special temple. It claims the temple was to be constructed of cedar and brick, with a house of silver and gold. There will be a slaughter of many animals, neat, cattle, rams, one year calves, lambs, kids, and wine from gold cups. Hayyin and Kothar would melt silver by the thousands and gold by the myriads. They would make a gorgeous throne above a gorgeous footstool and couch, all overlaid with gold. Bowls would be shaped like wild beasts and pillars sculptured with wild beasts.

 Another legend of Solomon was the Queen of Sheba. This great queen remains unidentified by scholars. Sheba is a district in Ethiopia. Josephus informs us (Jewish Antiquities VIII 165) the queen was “the queen of Egypt and Ethiopia.” There was only one queen of Egypt anywhere near this time. That was Queen Hatsheput (1503-1483 B.C.) Coincidentally, she co-reigned with Thutmose III (1504-1450 B.C.) who we have already identified as the looter of Solomon’s treasure.

Queen Hatsheput visited a great and wise king in the land of Punt, believed to be Somalia, although some renegade scholars place it in the Near East. The queen constructed Punt reliefs to show off the wonders and treasures she brought back. The reliefs showed that Punt was occupied by both white Semitic men as well as dark skinned men. It had exotic plants and animals from all over Africa. Punt had myrrh terraces. Hatsheput met the king of Punt and asked him ingenious problems that he enjoyed solving. They exchanged many expensive gifts. The queen described a “house of silver,” “a double house of silver,” and “a floor wrought with gold and silver.” (116)

The queen received gifts of gold, silver, almug trees, ivory, apes, spices, and exotic plants. The similarity of the two trips is too striking to ignore. Could the Hebrews have obtained this story from Egypt and adopted it as their own? Under Queen Hatsheput, the Asiatics were revolting against forced labor. The queen allowed them to leave. On their way out, they were drowned through a great upsurge of water.

The Bible has a serious problem in dating the Exodus. In Exodus 1:11 we are informed the city of “Raamses” is being built for the Pharaoh. This construction took place under Ramesses II who ruled from 1279-1212 B.C. The story of the Exodus implies that the Pharaoh led the charge (Exodus 14:8-9). It also implies that the Pharaoh died from the collapsing pillar of water (Exodus 15:19 and Psalm 136:15). This cannot be true, for Ramesses II lived to a ripe old age of about 90 as testified by his mummy, which is still in existence.

The mines in Timna Valley, north of the Gulf of Aqahab, have historically been known as King Solomon’s Mines. Archeology informs us that these mines have been inactive since 1150 B.C., about a century and a half before Solomon was king. While there seems to be no historical king we can equate to Solomon at the middle of the second millennium B.C., David is another story. The word David comes from a title for a chief, “Dawidum” of the Bene-jamina tribe. They are described in eighteenth century B.C. documents as being savage and predatory (compare Gen. 49:27). This is not, however, where the myth of David originated, just his name.

The myth of David originates from the Ugarit texts in the name of King Krt or Keret. Scholars place Keret in the late 17th century, possibly a Hykos or “Shepherd King.” Both David and Keret were known for their beauty, generosity, and nobility. Both had massive armies including those from Asher and Zebulon. Keret had seven brothers. David was the eighth born. Keret obtained a wife after a siege (Geshur?) and had a son, Yassib. David had a wife from Geshur who gave him Absalom. Both Yassib and Absalom would attempt to usurp their father’s throne because they thought they were better judges. Both kings were nursed by a female ministering angel on their deathbed. Both passed on the birthright to the youngest son. Keret’s children were blessed as long as he kept his vows. David’s likewise were blessed as long as he obeyed God’s law.

The problem with David and Solomon being Hebrew kings is their lack of knowledge of the laws of Moses. These kings were such great sinners that pastors have given many sermons on this topic. Not even Jim Bakker, Charles Manson, Ted Bundy, or a Kennedy could measure up to the immoral deeds of these two characters. The laws prohibited foreign marriages (Exodus 34:16, Deut. 7:3-4). Deut. 17:15-20 tells us this wise king God will set above the Israelites and shall not multiply horses, wives, silver, or gold. He will sit on the throne and keep all these laws! Deut. 13 prescribes the death penalty for promoting the worship of foreign gods. Didn’t these guys know the law, or were they just above it? Where’s Nixon when you need a king of Israel?

Pharaohs and Kings
a book review

“Archaeology cannot ‘prove’ the Bible, if by that you mean ‘prove it to be inspired and revealed by God.’ If by prove, one means ‘showing some biblical event or passage to be historical,’ then it would be a correct usage.”
–Josh McDowell, explaining the limitations of archaeological discoveries


The book Pharaohs and Kings has been made into a series on the Learning Channel. The author, David M. Rohl, has done some fantastic research into bringing together Egyptian history and biblical events. I recommend his book to my Christian critics, as it takes their point of view, and has some remarkable sanity to it.

In order to reconcile biblical events with history, the chronology of one has to be changed. Rohl changes Egyptian chronology, claiming it is too long. The lists of kings he claims includes divided monarchies which ruled simultaneously. His evidence is convincing, and he painstakingly goes through every scrap, dotting every “i” and crossing every “t”. He then comes to the conclusion that the biblical pharaoh Shishak was not the Egyptian pharaoh Shoshenk, that “Shishak” was just a slang word used by the Hebrews to describe Ramesses II (the traditional pharaoh of the Exodus). Rohl then comes to the same conclusion as did Velikovsky, decades earlier. Rohl later scoffs the works of Velikovsky.
 
Rohl comes to the identical conclusion that I came to in my chapter on David and Solomon. There was no golden era in Israel during the Iron Age attributed to the time of the United Monarchy. Rohl goes on to claim that the monarchy did exist in the Late Bronze Age, making frequent comparisons to Ugarit, similar to what I did. Rohl however changes the dating of the Ages to correspond to Biblical chronology. (My chapter on David and Solomon appeared in print in The Freethought Exchange prior to Rohl’s publication. While our works are independent of each other, we have drawn on some of the same sources.)
 The Amarna letters are extensively discussed. These have been used by Bible scholars to prove the invasion of Joshua (see chapter on Joshua.) Rohl claims (and I am convinced he is correct on this matter) that the texts are in reality letters written by Saul, pleading with the pharaoh to save him from the invasion of David and his band of Hebrews. (The story of Joshua may well in fact be a doublet.)

The Exodus is explained in the same manner that was used in the chapter on Queen Hatshepsut, with Sobekhotep IV as the pharaoh circa 1509 B.C. by his chronology.

The invasion by Joshua is corresponded to the expulsion of the Hyksos out of Egypt. Many scholars identify this expulsion with the Exodus because of the massive amount of people that were involved. Joseph is identified as a Vizier in Egypt during the reign of the Hyksos. Rohl identifies Joseph’s palace and a statue he claims depicts Joseph wearing his cloak of many colors (red, purple, and gold).

As great as all this sounds, Rohl is not without his critics. What Velikovsky found out was that ancient cultures meshed. When he wrote a whole new history for Egypt, he ended up writing a whole new history for Greece and Persia. Rohl admittedly has the same problem, particularly with Assyrian chronology which supports the current status quo.
 
Rohl’s other headache is C-14 dating which supports the classical chronology also. Because there are discrepancies in C-14 dating, as one would expect, Rohl discounts all of it. Rohl would love to use the eruption of Thera to account for the plagues of Egypt, but alas he can not because his revised time line takes him too far out of date (about 170 years). If Sobekhotep IV was the pharaoh of he Exodus as Rohl claims, he could use the destruction of Thera in his work as the cause of the bizarre happenings, if he had stuck to the original time sequence.

Peoples of the Sea
“Those who contend the Bible is unreliable historically are not professional historians.” –Josh McDowell


One of the major events that took place in ancient times is known as the invasion of the Peoples of the Sea. This major devastation of the Holy Land was not worth mentioning in the Biblical texts. During 1208 B.C. Egypt was attacked by Libya and five other groups of people identified as Shardana, Shekelesh, Akawasha, Lukka, and Tursha. These were known as the “Peoples of the Sea.” The pharoah Merneptah defeated the invaders. A generation later they attacked again, supported by Peleset and Tjeker. Peleset is believed to be Philistines from Crete. Lukka is possibly the Lycians. Akawasha are thought to be Greeks. Tursha has been equated to the Etruscans, likewise Shardana is Sardinia and Shekelesh is Sicily. A combination of drought and migrations is believed to have caused the mass invasion by the Sea Peoples. This was not just an attacking force, but a vast migration of entire nations complete with women and children being pulled on ox carts.
 
The second strike was in 1175 B.C. during the reign of Ramesses III. The invaders set up camp in Syria-Palestine and desolated its people. They attacked by both land and sea. Ramesses destroyed their fleet in the mouth of the Nile by shooting arrows from the riverbank. The land force was defeated somewhere in Lebanon or northern Palestine. This ended the Hittite empire. Egypt could not maintain control over the Near East. Palestine fell into what is known as a “dark age” which lasted up until the time of Omri. This invasion took place during the time Joshua was leading his army eastward, yet the Bible makes no mention of it. Joshua somehow missed the whole war.
 
The destruction of the Hittite Empire, supported both by Egyptian text and archaeological digs, dates to circa 1150 B.C., though a few Hittite cities survived until absorbed by the Assyrians.
 The problem is that there is no evidence of any great empire, Hebrew, Hittite, Assyrian, Babylonian, or Egyptian, existing between 1000-900 B.C. While the cities in Israel were occupied during this time period, there is no evidence of a great magical golden age kingdom as proclaimed by the Bible. Like Camelot, the story is not real. Israel was in a dark age during this period. There is no archaeological or non-Biblical historical evidence to support the Bible’s story.

If you made it this far nerd-you might try Thomas L. Thompson's "The Mythic Past" It is not high on my recommend list. It is dry as toast.