owleye

JP....

"You are talking about your own life and the reasons i presume?"

I thought I was giving a thoughtful response to Nu who seemed to be troubled by the lack of meaning in impermanence, to which I was sympathetic.

"Is living under the shadow of impermanence impossible?"

Why bring into play a question of impossibility here? Could you not come up with a better term for what you had in mind? Why not mere difficulty? I should think that would have been sufficient to whatever point you wished to make. In any case, I should think that the idea of facing own annihilation is likely to be our most difficult challenge. I think we do wish to be remembered and live on in one way or another.


"Is that the purpose of life...to leave something behind so that the blokes dont forget?"

I'm not up on what it means to be a 'bloke', so I can't entirely respond. Short of that, it appears you are trying to provoke me in some way, for reasons I cannot imagine. What is it that you find offensive about the notion of leaving something behind? Looking back on your own life, what is it that you believe you have been doing with it?

owleye

David Gould

In response to the original question, I remember reading a book about the mind. In it, there was a question:

Would you submit to a week of horrible torture if you were guranteed that all memory of it would be permanantly erased and there would be no permanant physical damage?

Phrased positively:

Would you submit to a week of the most amazing pleasure imaginable if you knew that you would have no memory of it afterwards and there would be no lasting physical benefits?


No-one I know would say 'yes' to the first one. Everyone I know would say 'yes' to the second one. The thing is, during the week you do experience the torture, or the pleasure. At the time, it is of immense significance and meaning.

Having no memory and the events having no effect on you afterwards (like death after a lifetime of action) does not alter the significance of the events at the time of there occurence.

phaedrus

owl

I thought I was giving a thoughtful response to Nu who seemed to be troubled by the lack of meaning in impermanence, to which I was sympathetic.

Yes, you were doing that. My question was posed to ascertain whether its your own personal take on the issue or you were indicating your take is "the" way to deal with impermanence...thats all.

Why bring into play a question of impossibility here? Could you not come up with a better term for what you had in mind? Why not mere difficulty? I should think that would have been sufficient to whatever point you wished to make.

Maybe I thought my use of a particular word brought out the point in an emphatic manner and indicate my view on the concern regarding impermanence?

In any case, I should think that the idea of facing own annihilation is likely to be our most difficult challenge. I think we do wish to be remembered and live on in one way or another.

Why should it be a challenge when we cant overcome it? Again you say "we"..are you stating the position for the whole world?

I'm not up on what it means to be a 'bloke', so I can't entirely respond. Short of that, it appears you are trying to provoke me in some way, for reasons I cannot imagine.

Oh no, why should mere questioning be construed as a provocation? It was merely an attempt to get a better picture of your position on the issue. Regarding "bloke", i guess the net is a a good enough medium to find out the meaning.

What is it that you find offensive about the notion of leaving something behind? Looking back on your own life, what is it that you believe you have been doing with it?

Offensive? I was just asking whether leaving something behind is the purpose of life. What I have been doing with my own life? - i have been living i guess (for myself).

Anyhows, again please consider the questions as merely questions and nothing else.

JP

Btw, just wanted to check, thee be "Fell" from the now extinct message board at philosophers.co.uk?

MadMordigan

Would you submit to a week of horrible torture if you were guranteed that all memory of it would be permanantly erased and there would be no permanant physical damage?


I have no need for your consent. I already did this to you last week.

owleye

JP...

Yes. You are quite right. My other pseudonym is Fell.

I should think that those of us who offer opinions on boards like this do so on the basis that they aren't just personal opinions in which we are being polled by someone for some sociological purpose, or to see whether our positions match those of some poll-taker. It being a philosophical forum I would rather think we give opinions, having good reasons for thinking they are universally applicable, or at least that they represent principles that each of us hold, subject to some exception or another.

If we are to have a discussion about something that interests us, philosophically, I would expect that we offer support for our opinions and that such offering would be subject to criticism if instead of providing justification for it, merely clouded the position further. Notwithstanding this, until there is an issue, I would not expect there is a need to offer more than what we believe everyone should believe. So if you have an issue you wish to raise, please do so.

owleye

babelfish

(Ahem, sorry "blokes" but I'm butting in to insert a short comment.)

I think one possible reason why religious people invented the afterlife is 1) as a reward for being "good" or 2) as a punishment for being "bad."

They couldn't stand it if, right now, Hitler, rather than burning in hell, was simply . . . obliterated. Where's the fairness in that? Same thing with Mother Theresa, if she has just ceased to exist, exactly like Hitler, how "just" would that be? Without that punishment/reward at the end of one's life (they think) how can we possibly keep all these unruly humans in line?

I agree with most of the posts above. Why do you need a purpose in your life other than to live it? When you really think about it, it's a huge gift. You are the only person who will ever look out through your two eyes and be the center of your universe. Don't waste your life.

It's not that short either. It's nice and LONG! It only seems short when you compare it to eternity. Like comparing an elephant to a mountainside. You'll have plenty of time to do and learn and experience. And when it's over, so what if people don't remember you? (And let's face it, unless you're hugely famous or a Mormon, your great great grandchildren probably wouldn't know you from Adam! ) It's what you're doing now that matters.

I don't get too morose when I contemplate my own death. I figure it'll be alot like before I was born (or big enough in my mom's tummy to be conscious). I just won't be conscious. I won't even be able to look down and feel sorry for all those loved ones grieving for me.

That's not so bad, is it?

RJS

Would you pay for such an experience, and if so, how much? We can start with monetary answers if you want.

[ May 17, 2002: Message edited by: RJS ]</p>

Bill Snedden

Bravo! Well said!

Bill

phaedrus

Hey Fell,

Fancy meeting you...anyone else of the old board around?

I should think that those of us who offer opinions on boards like this do so on the basis that they aren't just personal opinions in which we are being polled by someone for some sociological purpose, or to see whether our positions match those of some poll-taker. It being a philosophical forum I would rather think we give opinions, having good reasons for thinking they are universally applicable, or at least that they represent principles that each of us hold, subject to some exception or another.

Errr...yes we all give opinions for th sake of discussion, not for polls, i guess that part is obvious. Now the key worsd are "universally applicable", why would anyone giving their personal opinions of the world would dare to think that these "personal opinions" would be accepted by all and sundry? We put forth our opinions with an understanding that everyone has different views on a particular issue or subject and either try to learn or impart learning based on the course of the discussion. It shouldnt be a case of this-is-what-i-think-is-right-take-it-or-leave-it. Afterall wasnt it Toffler who said The illiterate of the future will not be those who cant read or write, but those who cant learn, unlearn and relearn (not the exact words but something like to this effect)

Notwithstanding this, until there is an issue, I would not expect there is a need to offer more than what we believe everyone should believe. So if you have an issue you wish to raise, please do so.

You mean to say there has been no "issue" in this thread and you just offered your thoughts

JP

Laurentius

AVE

...sun radiation is virtually never ending, and yet it proves to be of extrem value. (Permanent things rule!)

...ice sculptures look like art, and yet they can't claim complete esthetic value exactly because of their high (even only potential) impermanence.

...all that makes me unique is in fact my memory, and this is so frail and soon (or later) gone; and yet it makes one of the most dear things to me. (Should I elaborate why?)

AVE