R.J.

Does anybody have any comments on the post below?

<a href="http://www.jewishtribalreview.org/03jech.htm" target="_blank">Jews and Christianity</a>

{Edited to remove article - Wizardry}

[ December 10, 2002: Message edited by: Wizardry ]</p>

Sojourner553

"Actually St. Augustine was partly responsible for the fact that some
Jews (but not pagans) survived the persecutions over the next centuries.
Augustine believed that the Jews had a special role to play in God's divine plan
for human salvation. After all, they had been the original "Chosen People" in
the Old Testament. Christian imperial laws were already punishing Jews for their
refusal to acknowledge the truth about Jesus Christ. It was believed that
perhaps the Second Coming had been delayed until the Jews repented and converted
en masse. However, if there were no Jews, Augustine reasoned, there could be NO
salvation for mankind--Thus Jews needed to be kept alive so that they could be
converted. (Augustine, CITY OF GOD, Book XVIII, Chapter 46) (1) "

<a href="http://mac-2001.com/philo/crit/AUGUSTIN.TXT" target="_blank">http://mac-2001.com/philo/crit/AUGUSTIN.TXT</a>

[ December 09, 2002: Message edited by: Sojourner553 ]</p>

Toto

My general comment: this long-winded exercise in quote-mining appears to be intended to set up some equivalence between Christian anti-Semitism, which led to the wholesale slaughter of Jews in pogroms and in the Holocaust, with Jewish resistance to Christianity, which is part of what every religion does. What's the point? Do Jews have to accede to Christian attempts to force their prayers and rituals on society at large to be considered tolerant? Is the author trying to say that Jews brought all their troubles on themselves?

And what does this have to do with BC&A?

This is correct. Many Christians are so blind and culturally illiterate that they think their special symbol is a universal symbol of goodness. For non-Christians, it is a symbol of a different theology and a reminder of Christian wrongs.

What's going on here is people reacting against becoming part of an alien religious ritual. Seems simple to me. (I wonder if this would have been explained if the quote had been continued. Wyschogrod is not a Christian apologist like Lapin below)

Daniel Lapin is the captive token Jew for the Christian Coalition. He appears at most of their annual meetings to reassure them that they are not the anti-Semitic bigots that they might appear to be.

Addedum:

This post was copied verbatim from

<a href="http://www.jewishtribalreview.org/03jech.htm" target="_blank">www.jewishtribalreview.org/03jech.htm</a>

That site contains an online version of the book "When Victims Rule. A Critique of Jewish Pre-eminence in America", and in general seems to be anti-Jewish and at least borderline anti-Semitic. The authors of the site dispute the anti-Semitism charge, but seem to do everything they can to blame Jews for every problem in modern life. A sampling of the pages shows a discussion of usury in the middle ages, defamation of Jewish scientist Albert Einstein and a list of all the Jews in the Clinton administration, with a long discussion of that famous Jew, Monica Lewinsky

Given the bias of the site, I would not accept any of the quotes listed without further authentication.

Yahoo classifies this site as a hate site.

[ December 08, 2002: Message edited by: Toto ]</p>

CX

Nothing I can see...off it goes to MRD.

emotional

Judaism, like Christianity and Islam, is an exclusivist religion: it promotes itself as exclusive truth (though not as the exclusive way to God - the seven Noahide commandments are available to non-Jews).

The core of Judaism is a racist ideology, ie the ideology of being a chosen race. This I say in all seriosity - so I was taught in the yeshivah, from the level of the plain Torah up to the mystic writings of the Hasidic masters.

The isolationist mentality of the Jewish community was instrumental to anti-semitism. Jews, believing in the finality of their own revelation, rejected both New Testament and Qur'an, thus bringing upon them the wrath of Christians and Muslims.

Judaism and Christianity have had their fair exchange of insults and derogatory remarks. The Talmud calls Christianity "religion of the swine", because like the swine, the Christian religion shows its purity (its pure feet, which are uncloven) but intrinsically is impure - like the pig that says re'u tahor ani "see, I am pure", but inside is unholy.

The Talmud tells us Jesus was the bastard son of Mary and a Roman legionary named Pantera. Jesus, says the Talmud, seduced Jews through black magic and false prophecies and is now burning in hell, in excrement.

To a Jewish family, at any rate an Orthodox Jewish family, conversion of a member to Christianity is death - the customs of mourning the dead (seven days of mourning) are observed.

There is no love lost between the members of the two religions. Especially, Christianity is viewed in Jewish eyes as idolatry, because of the worship of a human being (Jesus). As for the cross, for Jews it is a hangman's noose, and it is but a reminiscent of death-worship.

Even my secular parents, liberal as they may be, would not be happy if I were to convert to Christianity. Even secularised Jews are averse to the religion of Jesus, after all those years.

Wizardry

R.J.

I will repeat my warning <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=45&t=001571" target="_blank">here</a>.

Please see that this does not happen again.

Wizardry - Moderator, General Religious Discussions

R.J.

Please note that I didn't copy this from the original -- I forwarded a post from the following URL:
&lt; <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thejesusdebate/message/10299" target="_blank">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/thejesusdebate/message/10299</a> &gt;