Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Mr. Sammi · 09-27-2002, 04:56 AM

To the esteemed IIDB philosophy board readers:

With all the KNOWLEDGE you posess, do you think all this knowledge was obtained consciously, seeing you have conscious use of this knowledge? By this I mean, was this knowledge only obtained by rote learning done during the conscious consumption of information OR reflection on information?

On the other hand, do you believe there is a background information processor in your head, which makes the necessary connections, anytime in your life, and provides you with all the knowledge, OR most of the knowledge, which is obtainable from the information? My infant spirit...

Sammi Na Boodie ()

Keith Russell · 09-27-2002, 08:32 AM

Sammi:
To the esteemed IIDB philosophy board readers:

With all the KNOWLEDGE you posess, do you think all this knowledge was obtained consciously, seeing you have conscious use of this knowledge?

Keith: I think all of one's knowledge is obtained consciously, but I think some of it is stored 'unconsciously.

Sammi: By this I mean, was this knowledge only obtained by rote learning done during the conscious consumption of information OR reflection on information?

Keith: Knowledge is obtained in many ways: learning, reflection/observation, and--which you didn't mention--direct experience.

Sammi: On the other hand, do you believe there is a background information processor in your head, which makes the necessary connections, anytime in your life, and provides you with all the knowledge, OR most of the knowledge--

Keith: Yes, most of one's knowledge is stored unconsciously, but--in a healthy adult human being--that knowledge can be recalled into conscious awareness, as needed.

Sammi: which is obtainable from the information? My infant spirit...

[ September 27, 2002: Message edited by: Keith Russell ]</p>

Jamie_L · 09-27-2002, 08:38 AM

Well, again we have thorny issues of defining knowledge and information.

It seems to me that no external input gets into the brain without us being conscious. However, it seems equally apparent to me that there are unconscious processes that can make connections between information so obtained.

I've often had situations where I was trying to solve a problem, and couldn't think of a solution. So I put it aside and stopped thinking about it. Later, I have a sudden realization of a potential solution. It seems like this was an unconscious process at work, but is the new realization actually new knowledge? I don't know.

Jamie

Mr. Sammi · 09-27-2002, 11:07 AM

Keith : you claimed KNOWLEDGE can be obtained by direct experience AND observation. Can you show how is knowledge observable. Can you also outline how is knowledge related to direct experience. Thanking you far in advance.

I retain my position on knowledge being obtainable only through learning and reflection. My position is only information is obtained through direct experience OR through observation.

Sammi Na Boodie ()

09-27-2002, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mr. Sammi:
<strong>

I retain my position on knowledge being obtainable only through learning and reflection. My position is only information is obtained through direct experience OR through observation.

Sammi Na Boodie ()</strong>

That's a good position Sammi but it contradicts your opening statement "knowledge processing." Data is processed and tied into knowledge. From there knowledge can be combined with other data to increase knowledge.

Mr. Sammi · 09-28-2002, 06:19 AM

Amos, I see no contradiction. Knowledge Processing : the process through which Knowledge is derived, retained and recollected. Knowledge Processing : the process which occurs when knowledge is combined/corellated with data to produce/increase knowledge.

My position entails a change in information before knowledge is obtained. This means a process in the head which performs certain operations on information. One of the primary elements of knowledge is itz ability to be recalled.

Sammi Na Boodie ()

sweep · 09-28-2002, 06:57 AM

does data come from the senses? are these words I add derived from the senses?

Does time come from the senses or is it apriori?

Quote:

By this I mean, was this knowledge only obtained by rote learning done during the conscious consumption of information OR reflection on information?

and..

Quote:

I retain my position on knowledge being obtainable only through learning and reflection. My position is only information is obtained through direct experience OR through observation.

so direct observation experience (*empiricism*?) AND reflection. wot, wot, wot?

I think we have the capacity for abstract thought and the re-organisation of pieces of sense information, making our brain dynamic> able to reconstruct. The observable world doesn't re-organise itself the same as we reorganise it, if you can see the difference

and now I have finished my coffee- off to town. Less meaningless questions- lets find out where it leads though

Keith Russell · 09-28-2002, 07:30 AM

Sammi:

I assume that you believe that 'information' and 'knowledge' are qualitatively different.

Could you please explain what you see as the difference between 'knowledge' and 'information'?

Keith.

Mr. Sammi · 09-30-2002, 05:36 AM

Mr. Russell,

Knowledge has to step beyond the power of Information. Generally we do not have the responsibility to remember information. Sometimes we remember information for our own purposes. Knowledge on the other hand must posess the characteristic of being a memory which becomes a resident part of us.

Having to remember Information is the first quality Information must acquire on itz path to becoming a form of Knowledge. When Information makes this change, it becomes a simple/intermediate form of Knowledge. There is more to this I hope...

Sammi Na Boodie ()

Mr. Sammi · 09-30-2002, 05:39 AM

sweep, data from the senses that are externally linked, and data that comes from the senses that are internally linked. Are they the same? can science show this?

Sammi Na Boodie ()

09-27-2002, 04:56 AM	#1
Mr. Sammi Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montr�al Posts: 367	Knowledge Processing To the esteemed IIDB philosophy board readers: With all the KNOWLEDGE you posess, do you think all this knowledge was obtained consciously, seeing you have conscious use of this knowledge? By this I mean, was this knowledge only obtained by rote learning done during the conscious consumption of information OR reflection on information? On the other hand, do you believe there is a background information processor in your head, which makes the necessary connections, anytime in your life, and provides you with all the knowledge, OR most of the knowledge, which is obtainable from the information? My infant spirit... Sammi Na Boodie ()

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09-27-2002, 08:32 AM	#2
Keith Russell Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Overland Park, Kansas Posts: 1,336	Sammi: To the esteemed IIDB philosophy board readers: With all the KNOWLEDGE you posess, do you think all this knowledge was obtained consciously, seeing you have conscious use of this knowledge? *Keith: I think all of one's knowledge is obtained consciously, but I think some* of it is stored 'unconsciously. Sammi: By this I mean, was this knowledge only obtained by rote learning done during the conscious consumption of information OR reflection on information? Keith: Knowledge is obtained in many ways: learning, reflection/observation, and--which you didn't mention--direct experience. Sammi: On the other hand, do you believe there is a background information processor in your head, which makes the necessary connections, anytime in your life, and provides you with all the knowledge, OR most of the knowledge-- Keith: Yes, most of one's knowledge is stored unconsciously, but--in a healthy adult human being--that knowledge can be recalled into conscious awareness, as needed.** Sammi: which is obtainable from the information? My infant spirit... [ September 27, 2002: Message edited by: Keith Russell ]</p>

09-27-2002, 08:38 AM	#3
Jamie_L Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: U.S. Posts: 2,565	Well, again we have thorny issues of defining knowledge and information. It seems to me that no external input gets into the brain without us being conscious. However, it seems equally apparent to me that there are unconscious processes that can make connections between information so obtained. I've often had situations where I was trying to solve a problem, and couldn't think of a solution. So I put it aside and stopped thinking about it. Later, I have a sudden realization of a potential solution. It seems like this was an unconscious process at work, but is the new realization actually new knowledge? I don't know. Jamie

09-27-2002, 11:07 AM	#4
Mr. Sammi Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montr�al Posts: 367	Keith : you claimed KNOWLEDGE can be obtained by direct experience AND observation. Can you show how is knowledge observable. Can you also outline how is knowledge related to direct experience. Thanking you far in advance. I retain my position on knowledge being obtainable only through learning and reflection. My position is only information is obtained through direct experience OR through observation. Sammi Na Boodie ()

09-28-2002, 06:19 AM	#6
Mr. Sammi Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montr�al Posts: 367	Amos, I see no contradiction. Knowledge Processing : the process through which Knowledge is derived, retained and recollected. Knowledge Processing : the process which occurs when knowledge is combined/corellated with data to produce/increase knowledge. My position entails a change in information before knowledge is obtained. This means a process in the head which performs certain operations on information. One of the primary elements of knowledge is itz ability to be recalled. Sammi Na Boodie ()

09-28-2002, 07:30 AM	#8
Keith Russell Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Overland Park, Kansas Posts: 1,336	Sammi: I assume that you believe that 'information' and 'knowledge' are qualitatively different. Could you please explain what you see as the difference between 'knowledge' and 'information'? Keith.

09-30-2002, 05:36 AM	#9
Mr. Sammi Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montr�al Posts: 367	Mr. Russell, Knowledge has to step beyond the power of Information. Generally we do not have the responsibility to remember information. Sometimes we remember information for our own purposes. Knowledge on the other hand must posess the characteristic of being a memory which becomes a resident part of us. Having to remember Information is the first quality Information must acquire on itz path to becoming a form of Knowledge. When Information makes this change, it becomes a simple/intermediate form of Knowledge. There is more to this I hope... Sammi Na Boodie ()

09-30-2002, 05:39 AM	#10
Mr. Sammi Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montr�al Posts: 367	sweep, data from the senses that are externally linked, and data that comes from the senses that are internally linked. Are they the same? can science show this? Sammi Na Boodie ()

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