Freethought & Rationalism Archive

anime · 02-14-2003, 08:43 PM

Only if such standards are understood to be present in that situation.

Otherwise, one may be guilty of committing Fallacy of Composition.

Jeremy Pallant · 02-14-2003, 08:47 PM

Ah. So you pick and choose when to apply apologetic logic. Thanks for the clarification. Once again the Bible is held to a different standard, one not subject to simple English comprehension.

anime · 02-14-2003, 08:50 PM

Are not different literary styles held to different interpetations?

Who on earth would hold an English interpretation to a Greek text?

Are not Bible critics also biased in their interpretations towards a letter that was not written to them?

Jeremy Pallant · 02-14-2003, 08:59 PM

So the Bible hasn't been properly translated into English? Is that what you are saying?

anime · 02-14-2003, 09:02 PM

I wouldn't make my statement too general.

The English translations lose meaning in quite a few places, depending on the Version. Some Versions lose more than others.

Jeremy Pallant · 02-14-2003, 09:05 PM

Seems a shame that your god can't inspire proper translation.

anime · 02-14-2003, 09:06 PM

I think the real shame is He can't inspire people willing to research.

Jeremy Pallant · 02-14-2003, 09:09 PM

Rubbish! The Bible is supposed to be the ultimate guide to Christianity for all people since its inception around 1600 years ago. Are you saying that it is only now that it can be properly interpreted? Such a shame for people two hundred years ago who lack our current, more enlightened perspective.

anime · 02-14-2003, 09:15 PM

I didn't say that at all.

The original translators for the KJV (for example) wrote a letter to the King warning him (and the reader) that while they did their best, the reader should be careful.

Furthermore, understanding the text is not confined to the MSS alone, but to other contemporary writings called:

The PAPYRI and OSTRACA.

"Besides the Greek text mention ought to be made of these, although it concerns the interpretation of the text rather than the text itself.

We have only to think of the changes which have taken place in our own English language during the last 300 years, to understand the inexpressible usefulness of documents written on the material called papyrus, and on pieces of broken pottery called ostraca, recently discovered in Egypt and elsewhere. They are found in the ruins of ancient temples and houses, and in the rubbish heaps of towns and villages, and are of great importance.

They consist of business-letters, love-letters, contracts, estimates, certificates, agreements, accounts, bills-of-sale, mortgages, school-exercises, receipts, bribes, pawn-tickets, charms, litanies, tales, magical literature, and every sort of literary production.

These are of inestimable value in enabling us to arrive at the true meaning of many words (used in the time of Christ) which were heretofore inexplicable. Examples may be seen in the notes on "scrip" (Matthew 10:10. Mark 6:8. Luke 9:3); "have" (Matthew 6:2, 5,16. Luke 6:24. Philemon 15); "officer" (Luke 12:58); "presseth" (Luke 16:16); "suffereth violence" (Matthew 11:12), etc.4

Jeremy Pallant · 02-14-2003, 09:16 PM

Question. Do you believe that your god inspired the Bible?

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

02-14-2003, 08:43 PM	#11
anime Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Anaheim, California Posts: 67	Only if such standards are understood to be present in that situation. Otherwise, one may be guilty of committing Fallacy of Composition.

02-14-2003, 08:47 PM	#12
Jeremy Pallant Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tucson, Arizona, USA Posts: 1,242	Ah. So you pick and choose when to apply apologetic logic. Thanks for the clarification. Once again the Bible is held to a different standard, one not subject to simple English comprehension.

02-14-2003, 08:50 PM	#13
anime Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Anaheim, California Posts: 67	Are not different literary styles held to different interpetations? Who on earth would hold an English interpretation to a Greek text? Are not Bible critics also biased in their interpretations towards a letter that was not written to them?

02-14-2003, 08:59 PM	#14
Jeremy Pallant Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tucson, Arizona, USA Posts: 1,242	So the Bible hasn't been properly translated into English? Is that what you are saying?

02-14-2003, 09:02 PM	#15
anime Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Anaheim, California Posts: 67	I wouldn't make my statement too general. The English translations lose meaning in quite a few places, depending on the Version. Some Versions lose more than others.

02-14-2003, 09:05 PM	#16
Jeremy Pallant Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tucson, Arizona, USA Posts: 1,242	Seems a shame that your god can't inspire proper translation.

02-14-2003, 09:06 PM	#17
anime Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Anaheim, California Posts: 67	I think the real shame is He can't inspire people willing to research.

02-14-2003, 09:09 PM	#18
Jeremy Pallant Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tucson, Arizona, USA Posts: 1,242	Rubbish! The Bible is supposed to be the ultimate guide to Christianity for all people since its inception around 1600 years ago. Are you saying that it is only now that it can be properly interpreted? Such a shame for people two hundred years ago who lack our current, more enlightened perspective.

02-14-2003, 09:15 PM	#19
anime Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Anaheim, California Posts: 67	I didn't say that at all. The original translators for the KJV (for example) wrote a letter to the King warning him (and the reader) that while they did their best, the reader should be careful. Furthermore, understanding the text is not confined to the MSS alone, but to other contemporary writings called: The PAPYRI and OSTRACA. "Besides the Greek text mention ought to be made of these, although it concerns the interpretation of the text rather than the text itself. We have only to think of the changes which have taken place in our own English language during the last 300 years, to understand the inexpressible usefulness of documents written on the material called *papyrus, and on pieces of broken pottery called ostraca*, recently discovered in Egypt and elsewhere. They are found in the ruins of ancient temples and houses, and in the rubbish heaps of towns and villages, and are of great importance. They consist of business-letters, love-letters, contracts, estimates, certificates, agreements, accounts, bills-of-sale, mortgages, school-exercises, receipts, bribes, pawn-tickets, charms, litanies, tales, magical literature, and every sort of literary production. These are of inestimable value in enabling us to arrive at the true meaning of many words (used in the time of Christ) which were heretofore inexplicable. Examples may be seen in the notes on "scrip" (Matthew 10:10. Mark 6:8. Luke 9:3); "have" (Matthew 6:2, 5,16. Luke 6:24. Philemon 15); "officer" (Luke 12:58); "presseth" (Luke 16:16); "suffereth violence" (Matthew 11:12), etc.4

02-14-2003, 09:16 PM	#20
Jeremy Pallant Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tucson, Arizona, USA Posts: 1,242	Question. Do you believe that your god inspired the Bible?

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.